My opinion on the change in the honor code

[DrumNFeather]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

So getting into BYU is such an incredible priviledge that once there, all students should just shut up and not discuss how BYU could be improved? Is that the education we want to give our youth?

I think that is a question for a different thread because it speaks to the purpose of BYU and I'm certain the opinions are far and wide in that regard.

I see the point that you and waters are trying to make, I'm just not sure the administration much cares if its students think that the honor code is too strict and would like to see it changed.

Further, I think that BYU admin and some alum, Read: John Haddow (among others), do indeed think that it is a privelage to attend BYU and as such, are confident that the line is long enough to get in that a few dissatisfied customers walking away areirrelevant.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Hey, don't get me wrong. I think you are great. Sorry if I offended.

So getting into BYU is such an incredible priviledge that once there, all students should just shut up and not discuss how BYU could be improved? Is that the education we want to give our youth?

I think a more accurate synopsis of what DrumNFeather and I are saying is that you can't justify breaking the Honor Code simply because you don't agree with some of the fine print.

I don't think either of us is saying you can't or shouldn't try to responsibly voice your opinion about how to improve the HC.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

What is the purpose of having an Honor Code then? It would be like one of those Democratic non-binding resolutions that they keep passing.

Certainly there could be some substantial improvement on the enforcement end, but to claim you have an Honor Code and then not have any institutional enforcement would be even more hypocritical than it is now.

Does the AFA have an honor code office? I don't know.

I would favor abolition of the HCO, as it is the primary source of my complaint, not the concept of an honor code.

Most institutions of higher learning have an honor code, but I imagine few have an HCO.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Does the AFA have an honor code office? I don't know.

I would favor abolition of the HCO, as it is the primary source of my complaint, not the concept of an honor code.

Most institutions of higher learning have an honor code, but I imagine few have an HCO.

If you get rid of the HCO....how do you "police" the honor code?

I say leave it up to the Bishops of those wards. Then again, for those who aren't LDS, then how is the subject approached?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

What purpose does an Honor Code serve if there is nothing enforcement-wise to uphold the standards?

When I join a company, I receive an orientation that outlines the code of conduct expected by that company. If I fail to live by those guidelines, I could be subject to action taken against me by my employer.

If you honestly think there should be no enforcement of the BYU Honor Code, then you should also be claiming there should be no Honor Code to begin with.

It is a privilege to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Should we have an enforcement of the Church to ensure compliance with the commandments and to ensure compliance with our temple covenants? Should we record for the bishop our every action and adopt some McCarthylike organization to make certain we're not Commies?

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Does the AFA have an honor code office? I don't know.

I would favor abolition of the HCO, as it is the primary source of my complaint, not the concept of an honor code.

Most institutions of higher learning have an honor code, but I imagine few have an HCO.

http://www.nd.edu/~hnrcode/docs/handbook.htm

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

If you get rid of the HCO....how do you "police" the honor code?

I say leave it up to the Bishops of those wards. Then again, for those who aren't LDS, then how is the subject approached?

Bishops and ecclesiastical leaders.

The Honor Code as adopted was not adopted out of some nobel purpose, but in response to the GIs returning home from WWII, and hanging out at BYU. It was also tightened by Ernie "McCarthy" Wilkerson so that he could spy on Commies and to stop any students from protesting the Vietnam War.

These things were not done out of nobel intentions, but rather out of political extremism on the part of administration. To be certain, the Board of Trustees had to approve, but Ernie could get them to do what they wanted. Now, it's ingrained within the culture, and we have accepted it as part of our culture. It is NOT something arising out of the Gospel. Its enforcement is the antithesis of Gospel principles.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

If you get rid of the HCO....how do you "police" the honor code?

I say leave it up to the Bishops of those wards. Then again, for those who aren't LDS, then how is the subject approached?

The idea of "policing" the honor code is pretty unique to BYU. Virginia, for example, has an honor code, but the students are expected to be self-enforcers. You can say, "that is dumb- then people will just cheat and break the rules," but really all you are saying is that BYU trusts its students less than Virginia does to do what they are supposed to do.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

It is a privilege to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Should we have an enforcement of the Church to ensure compliance with the commandments and to ensure compliance with our temple covenants? Should we record for the bishop our every action and adopt some McCarthylike organization to make certain we're not Commies?

Sorry, but I don't buy your assertion that those are equivalent arguments. I think my earlier example of conduct in the workplace is a better analogy.

[MikeWaters]

If you don't support BYU's policies, don't send them extra money.

This is what the vast majority of BYU grads do. But probably not for that reason.

It's really not an honor code. It's just a code. Let's stop using the word "honor" because it's misleading.