Without assessing fault or blame

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Tex

It seems the best example anyone has been able to offer is the PC message it sends, which was exactly what I said is the core why you folks want it. While the church's image is obviously important to the brethren, I'm not so sure these PC concerns rank real high on the list.

If they did, I think a man like Hinckley would've addressed them.

Was Christ playing with the little children a cheap PR trick?

Church leadership being able to reach out to all church members, make all of them feel comfortable and loved, and understand all of their needs is very important.

But in addition to that, diversity in leadership brings many more benefits, as far as the actual management and strategy. You want examples so you can shoot them down. If I could give you examples as a white boy from Utah, then surely the GA's would be aware of them. So I can't. But what I do know is that everytime I've been part of a strategic team, diversity has increased the awareness of needs from different groups. And when diversity is not present, the result suffers--even when the group members make conscious effort to think outside our culture/geography .

[Sleeping in EQ]

Maybe if an angel appears three times to Tex? Just a little jab there.

Tex, I am looking for you to argue something other than the status quo for its own sake. This exchange has me thinking of one of my favorite Emerson quips:

"Conservatism makes no poetry, breathes no prayer, has no invention; it is all memory. Reform has no gratitude, no prudence, no husbandry."

[Tex]

Originally Posted by jay santos

You want examples so you can shoot them down. If I could give you examples as a white boy from Utah, then surely the GA's would be aware of them. So I can't. But what I do know is that everytime I've been part of a strategic team, diversity has increased the awareness of needs from different groups. And when diversity is not present, the result suffers--even when the group members make conscious effort to think outside our culture/geography .

I'll give you an example from my side.

While living in Germany I had the opportunity several times to sit down with Henry Burkhardt, an East German who was pivotal in the church's establishment there during the communist era. He served as mission president there (while the Wall still existed) and as the Freiburg temple's first president, about which I speak. The story is now many years old in my mind but I'll relate it as best I can.

The East German saints, what few there were, had been pestering their government for many years about getting permission to attend their nearest temple, which at the time was the Swiss temple. Occasionally permission was granted, but typically it wasn't (given the political climate) and the government was weary of the petitioning.

Brother Burkhardt was well known to the government--he served as the face of the saints for many years--and was eventually approached by them on this issue. They asked him: how come your church can't just build a temple here? Temples were a little harder to come by in those days (this was the early 80's) and he explained that it was unlikely. But at the DDR's behest and after prayer, he left for Salt Lake City to ask the leadership there about the option.

As he told it to me, he arrived at Church Headquarters, and walked down the hall to greet President Monson (with whom he was well-acquainted). Monson, being unaware of Brother Burkhardt's reason for coming, shook his hand and said (I'm paraphrasing): "Henry, it's wonderful you're here! We want to ask you if you think it would be possible to build a temple in East Germany!"

Brother Burkhardt was stunned. He explained that it was the very purpose for which he'd come, the government was supportive, and the temple was built in near-record time. In fact, it was announced after the Frankfurt Temple, and still completed and dedicated before it.

Now this is nothing but anecdote, but in my mind it illustrates the remarkable "in-tune-ness" of the brethren to world situations. I can imagine this kind of story being replayed over and over in cultures and nations around the world. Would having a German, even an East German, in the Quorum of the Twelve have accelerated the process? I don't know. Would he have given the Twelve a more accurate view of the circumstances than Henry Burkhardt? I don't know.

What I do know is, the work moves remarkably forward without artificial attempts at diversity for diversity's sake.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by Tex

What I do know is, the work moves remarkably forward without artificial attempts at diversity for diversity's sake.

Brilliant Tex. May I quote you in Gospel Doctrine this week?

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Tex

I'll give you an example from my side.

While living in Germany I had the opportunity several times to sit down with Henry Burkhardt, an East German who was pivotal in the church's establishment there during the communist era. He served as mission president there (while the Wall still existed) and as the Freiburg temple's first president, about which I speak. The story is now many years old in my mind but I'll relate it as best I can.

The East German saints, what few there were, had been pestering their government for many years about getting permission to attend their nearest temple, which at the time was the Swiss temple. Occasionally permission was granted, but typically it wasn't (given the political climate) and the government was weary of the petitioning.

Brother Burkhardt was well known to the government--he served as the face of the saints for many years--and was eventually approached by them on this issue. They asked him: how come your church can't just build a temple here? Temples were a little harder to come by in those days (this was the early 80's) and he explained that it was unlikely. But at the DDR's behest and after prayer, he left for Salt Lake City to ask the leadership there about the option.

As he told it to me, he arrived at Church Headquarters, and walked down the hall to greet President Monson (with whom he was well-acquainted). Monson, being unaware of Brother Burkhardt's reason for coming, shook his hand and said (I'm paraphrasing): "Henry, it's wonderful you're here! We want to ask you if you think it would be possible to build a temple in East Germany!"

Brother Burkhardt was stunned. He explained that it was the very purpose for which he'd come, the government was supportive, and the temple was built in near-record time. In fact, it was announced after the Frankfurt Temple, and still completed and dedicated before it.

Now this is nothing but anecdote, but in my mind it illustrates the remarkable "in-tune-ness" of the brethren to world situations. I can imagine this kind of story being replayed over and over in cultures and nations around the world. Would having a German, even an East German, in the Quorum of the Twelve have accelerated the process? I don't know. Would he have given the Twelve a more accurate view of the circumstances than Henry Burkhardt? I don't know.

What I do know is, the work moves remarkably forward without artificial attempts at diversity for diversity's sake.

I may be cynical, but you're way more naive than I am cynical.

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I may be cynical, but you're way more naive than I am cynical.

What is wrong with you?

It's naive to believe the Lord can inspire His prophets in this way?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Have you not read Hinckley's biography? He has TONS of intimate experience with organizing the church outside the US, especially in Asia. There is no church leader that is more well-traveled and met with more peoples than President Hinckley.

How many languages does he speak?

How many cultures is he intimate with?

Travel and meeting with local leaders who revere him is not the same as intimate knowledge of local issues.

I love GBH, but he cannot be all things. It takes loads of time to understand how to do something in different locales, a fact you know well. Try doing someting in Saudia Arabia the way you do it in Utah.

I would love to have diverse conference with Latin members speaking Spanish and Portuguese, Germans German, Chinese Chines, then we truly would have a World Church concerned for our members worldwide.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by All-American

Somebody call Elder Scott. I understand he's still single.

Blame Sheri Dew....or was that Elder Oaks? lol...I dunno.

[Black Diamond Bay]

Not to put myself out there as Sis. Humility, but it seems to me that it takes a certain level of arrogance for one to assume that they can evaluate the needs of church members, and subsequently conclude that there is a need for changes in church leadership better than God.

Have we no faith that God will provide the appropriate leaders for the times, or have we now gone so far as to no longer believe that God selects our leaders?

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by Black Diamond Bay

Not to put myself out there as Sis. Humility, but it seems to me that it takes a certain level of arrogance for one to assume that they can evaluate the needs of church members, and subsequently conclude that there is a need for changes in church leadership better than God.

Have we no faith that God will provide the appropriate leaders for the times, or have we now gone so far as to no longer believe that God selects our leaders?

That kind of talk will earn you a "mullah" label around here. Be careful.