Jazz v. Lakers

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by Spaz

I'm not finding a 6-foul difference between the Lakers & Jazz very convincing. Especially after you factor in 2-3 fouls in the last minute. And when you factor in home-court.

yeah 23 FT's by ONE player is never convincing.

[Flystripper]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

Yeah...23 Ft's attempts for ONE player definetly screams too tightly of a called game, but I expected that before the series began so I wasn't surprised. Not too mention that even before the Jazz started fouling more in the last 2 minutes..the Lakers already had MORE FT attempts than the Jazz, but nice try anyway.

The Jazz lead the league in fouls. It really isn't surprising that they put the Lakers on the line more than they got to the line. The Jazz play physical defense and foul more than any other team in the league. Why would anyone be surprised that the team that leads the league in fouls would put the other team on the line more than they got to the line themselves. This was not a shocker and was not an indication of biased officiating. It was an indication of how the Jazz have been playing defense for as long as I can remember.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by Flystripper

The Jazz lead the league in fouls. It really isn't surprising that they put the Lakers on the line more than they got to the line. The Jazz play physical defense and foul more than any other team in the league. Why would anyone be surprised that the team that leads the league in fouls would put the other team on the line more than they got to the line themselves. This was not a shocker and was not an indication of biased officiating. It was an indication of how the Jazz have been playing defense for as long as I can remember.

It's not surprising, but to say that Kobe doesn't get superstar preferential treatment regardless of who your team just isn't a clear minded statement.

DWill went to the paint several times yesterday and got hammered many times with hardly a call. While Kobe would get Brewer to jump into the air, then literally jump into Brewer to initiate contact and Brewer gets hit with the foul.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

Kobe would get Brewer to jump into the air, then literally jump into Brewer to initiate contact and Brewer gets hit with the foul.

So you're complaining that they called a foul on a foul?


There's no doubt that Kobe gets some calls. He's not alone in that, and it doesn't happen nearly as often as many seem to believe.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by Spaz

So you're complaining that they called a foul on a foul?


There's no doubt that Kobe gets some calls. He's not alone in that, and it doesn't happen nearly as often as many seem to believe.

Actually it happens more than people irrationally and stubbornly refuse to believe.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

Actually it happens more than people irrationally and stubbornly refuse to believe.

Actually, it happens FAR less than the idiotic haters stubbornly insist. Hey look - I can argue just like you!

When you can point to a significant number of 'phantom fouls' called for Kobe, and show that it happens consistently, I'll concede that it happens more often than I currently believe. I won't be holding my breath.


BTW, a few stats to ponder:

Kobe is 2nd in the playoffs in Field Goal Attempts per game, at 22.4.
Kobe is 3rd in the playoffs in Free Throw Attempts per game, at 12.2.

You'd think that, among players with at least 4 FGA per game, he'd be way up there at the top in terms of a FGA to FTA ratio.


After removing players with less than four games played in the playoffs, and then removing players with less than 4 FGA per game, Kobe (1.84) ends up #15 in FGA/FTA. Behind such players as Shaq (which makes sense), Reggie Evans (1.08), Leon Powe (1.26), and Brandon Bass (1.44).


So yes, I'd agree that Kobe might get a call for "superstar treatment" that some others don't. I simply don't believe these calls amount to much.

[Spaz]

It seems pretty obvious, to me, that Kobe is far more athletic & gifted than nearly any other player today. He therefore is fouled far more often than most players, since that's all the defender can do to stop him.

Fans of opposing teams, obviously, will become frustrated by his frequent visits to the charity stripe. Which, understandably, leads to the belief that he doesn't deserve the foul shots he gets.


But the notion that he frequently gets 'star treatment', and frequently gets calls that other, lesser players won't get, is blown far out of proportion with reality.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by Spaz

It seems pretty obvious, to me, that Kobe is far more athletic & gifted than nearly any other player today. He therefore is fouled far more often than most players, since that's all the defender can do to stop him.

Fans of opposing teams, obviously, will become frustrated by his frequent visits to the charity stripe. Which, understandably, leads to the belief that he doesn't deserve the foul shots he gets.


But the notion that he frequently gets 'star treatment', and frequently gets calls that other, lesser players won't get, is blown far out of proportion with reality.

Right, Kobe and others don't freuently get superstar treatment.

Anytime you want to make an argument grounded in factual reality then please feel free.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

Right, Kobe and others don't freuently get superstar treatment.

Anytime you want to make an argument grounded in factual reality then please feel free.

Here you go. Feel free to respond, if you can.

[RockyBalboa]

So Kobe is avg 12 Ft/game....and yet it took all of one game in the series to break a Lakers Free throw record.

Do you really have the irrational contention that Superstars in the league don't get preferential treatment? And I'm not just referring to Kobe either.