Interesting bit on 60 Minutes last night

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

The most interesting part of that is the gay rats. It kind of pokes a hole (no pun intended) into the commonly held belief that homosexuality is a learned behavior.

True, but neither does it confirm that people are born gay (as menitoned that the rat was injected with a hormone just after birth to make it gay.)

My question would be:

Does homeboy take notes while watching 60 Minutes?

[SoCalCoug]

Firstly Rats and humans are two entirely different species … All sexually deviant behavior is, in part, learned. How many of the 'normal' male rats reciprocated when the injected male rat behaved like a female? I assume the males rats would’ve had to been taught how to act sexually with the so-called homosexual rat.

I'm sensing a bit of cognitive dissonance here, which I expect regarding this subject in an LDS-dominated forum: Homosexuality is a sin; therefore, it is a choice; therefore, it is learned behavior; therefore, they weren't born that way.

At some point, are we going to have to change our paradigm when it comes to the cause of homosexuality?

[il Padrino Ute]

Do we know the cause of homosexuality?

I've heard that it's a choice and I've heard that people are born gay.

Is there any proof confirming either? Or is it all speculation?

[RockyBalboa]

Which begs the question: Do gay men act gay or feminine?

I say they act gay, but I'm sure I'd get castigated by the sympathetic masses were I to say further, other than to say..I've rarely seen a gay man act like a woman,,,unless he were a cross dresser.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by homeboy

Well, they seemed to know just what to do. By my untrained eye, that is. But now you mention it, I suppose they could have gone through some kind of mandatory "gay rat sex" training course.

"Yo, listen up Willard. When we put Ben in the cage, you follow him around until he lifts his tail. Then you take Mr. Willy and ...."

Seriously, were the other rats even cognizant of the fact that it was indeed a male rat acting like a female?

Oh wait, I guess that’s the whole point … they are rats, and as rats their tiny brain is incapable of cognizant thought unlike the human brain ;-)

The rats merely reacted to stimuli, in a controlled environment, like High school freshman :-P … of course in the wild would these same animals react the same way? Interesting questions?

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by SoCalCoug

I'm sensing a bit of cognitive dissonance here, which I expect regarding this subject in an LDS-dominated forum: Homosexuality is a sin; therefore, it is a choice; therefore, it is learned behavior; therefore, they weren't born that way.

At some point, are we going to have to change our paradigm when it comes to the cause of homosexuality?

Let me be perfectly clear, I contend that a genetic predisposition towards homosexual behavior does indeed exist, and I am equally certain that learned behavior plays a critical role in a person’s decision to engage in homosexual activity.

What's equally interesting is the subject of addiction, or more specifically alcoholism ... it has also been proven that genetics plays a significant role in determining whether an individual is more prone to alcohol or drug addiction … When was this genetic aberration introduced into the human gene pool, was it there from the very beginning?

Choice plays a significant role in the whole equation –it cannot be dismissed by the mere claim that it is simply a matter of genetics. My thought process transcends religious conviction on this subject –it’s certainly not as simple as; it’s a sin therefore …

[MikeWaters]

i've met gay men who were not effeminate at all.

i don't believe anyone thinks it is entirely genetic. there are also environmental causes. but being bathed in hormones or an immune response in utero is hardly a "choice".

i think most gay men will tell you, when i became sexually aware, I was attracted to men. just like most of us were attracted to women.

there are many "gay" men who never engage in homosexual sex. they subjugate their desires and even have families. some percent of these end up not being able to carry through over the years, and the tales of family til 40, gay after are plenty.

the church, as far as I can tell, has no guidance to offer when it comes to understanding why some people report, from the earliest age, being attracted to the same sex. it defies simple theological explanation. as long as there is no explanation, I don't much have the desire to join the church's crusade against gay civil unions/marriage etc.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

i've met gay men who were not effeminate at all.

i don't believe anyone thinks it is entirely genetic. there are also environmental causes. but being bathed in hormones or an immune response in utero is hardly a "choice".

i think most gay men will tell you, when i became sexually aware, I was attracted to men. just like most of us were attracted to women.

there are many "gay" men who never engage in homosexual sex. they subjugate their desires and even have families. some percent of these end up not being able to carry through over the years, and the tales of family til 40, gay after are plenty.

the church, as far as I can tell, has no guidance to offer when it comes to understanding why some people report, from the earliest age, being attracted to the same sex. it defies simple theological explanation. as long as there is no explanation, I don't much have the desire to join the church's crusade against gay civil unions/marriage etc.

This topic now bores me, but Mike posted something about his interest here that is revealing for many of us. Mike posts he won't become involved unless he receives an explanation. Interesting. Sometimes we get an explanation after we become involved.

[MikeWaters]

involved in what? the political effort?

I find it curious that of the myriad moral problems in the world, the church focuses almost exclusively on gay marriage.

For me, it's not an issue that keeps me up at night.

World hunger and disease takes a back seat to denying the clothing company FCUK a trademark, in my ward.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

involved in what? the political effort?

I find it curious that of the myriad moral problems in the world, the church focuses almost exclusively on gay marriage.

You truly believe this is the moral issue upon which the church "almost exclusively" focuses? It is certainly highlighted in the political arean and popular culture but the church's focus is reactioanry, not proactive. The homosexual rights agenda is being pursued agreesively by several interest grroups and the church is resposning in kind. The churhc is also involved in promoting numerous other moral issues, as you will undoubtedly notice by paying careful attention at conference in a fgew weeks.

Note the skillful use of the quotation feature?