On martyrdom and men's self delusions

[All-American]

Originally Posted by creekster

Achilles went to Troy for glory and to pursue success and to defend his King's honor in THIS life. He knew about the prophecy of death, but he also knew it was his fate and so he went willingly. THere is some difference in my mind between that approach (i.e. hero on the battlefield, for home and hearth, etc.) and saying "Everybody hates me I think I'll blow up my school so they'll recall me when I die." I wouldn't give a rat's rear end if anyone remembers me when I die unless I am there to see it or otherwsie appreacite it. If not, why does it matter? OTOH, if faced with a matter of great importance to me or my family or my country, I would take comfort in knowing I would be remembered, but I would act for those issues in THIS life.

Btw, I'm not trying to suggest that you or MW are wrong abotu what you see in literature, etc., but I am saying when I look at guys like the colombine losers, I just don't get their motivation to the extent it involves making a mark of immortality.

Achilles didn't give two hoots about his King's honor. The theme of the Iliad is his anger toward Agamemnon. It was all about personal glory and being remembered.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by All-American

Achilles didn't give two hoots about his King's honor. The theme of the Iliad is his anger toward Agamemnon. It was all about personal glory and being remembered.

You're right on the King issue, but my overall puzzlement on this issue is still hanging out there.

Do you mena to say the Personal Glory is also post-life? Do you think he wasn't seeking glory in this life, menaing glory he could enjoy, even if briefly?

[All-American]

Originally Posted by creekster

You're right on the King issue, but my overall puzzlement on this issue is still hanging out there.

Do you mena to say the Personal Glory is also post-life? Do you think he wasn't seeking glory in this life, menaing glory he could enjoy, even if briefly?

Well, he's gonna be dead one way or another. Might as well have people remember you.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by All-American

Well, he's gonna be dead one way or another. Might as well have people remember you.

Hmmm. That's where I don't get it. Who cares if they remeber? Why does it matter? We're all going to be dead anyway no matter what so that can't be what drives it.

[All-American]

That's the closest thing to immortality: the endurance of memory. Especially in the Augustan age, programmatical poets would extol their works as the vehicles of immortality. Check out the last book of Ovid's Metamorphoses, for example.