Ok, Obamaniacs (Cali)....

[il Padrino Ute]

Obama said this in Berlin:

This is the moment when we must build on the wealth that open markets have created, and share its benefits more equitably. Trade has been a cornerstone of our growth and global development. But we will not be able to sustain this growth if it favors the few, and not the many. Together, we must forge trade that truly rewards the work that creates wealth, with meaningful protections for our people and our planet. This is the moment for trade that is free and fair for all."

This is Marxism in it's purist form. If you disagree, please point out which part isn't Marxist.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Obama said this in Berlin:

This is the moment when we must build on the wealth that open markets have created, and share its benefits more equitably. Trade has been a cornerstone of our growth and global development. But we will not be able to sustain this growth if it favors the few, and not the many. Together, we must forge trade that truly rewards the work that creates wealth, with meaningful protections for our people and our planet. This is the moment for trade that is free and fair for all."

This is Marxism in it's purist form. If you disagree, please point out which part isn't Marxist.

Which part of that is Marxist? Honestly- this would be amusing if it wasn't so depressing. Please simply review Marxism and get back to me afterwards. That should clear things up.

I also suggest you listen to Adam's comment about arguing against a theory as opposed to a label.

[il Padrino Ute]

Let's see, Obama thinks the wealth should be spread out more evenly amongst all, be it those who take the financial risk to make the money or the labor used to provide the service or goods. He doesn't believe some should have/earn more than others.

That is Marxism.

Cali, spare me the condescension about thinking I don't know what it is. Perhaps it just bothers you that your Messiah is just this side of being a communist.

Adam, it's not good policy. If it were, it would work. Marxism leads to communism and that doesn't work. Don't think so? Look at the former Soviet Union for an example.

And Mike, unless I'm mistaken, the Book of Mormon also teaches us to not be slothful or lazy. Those who are not willing to do their part should not have as much as those who are.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Let's see, Obama thinks the wealth should be spread out more evenly amongst all, be it those who take the financial risk to make the money or the labor used to provide the service or goods. He doesn't believe some should have/earn more than others.

That is Marxism.

Cali, spare me the condescension about thinking I don't know what it is. Perhaps it just bothers you that your Messiah is just this side of being a communist.

Adam, it's not good policy. If it were, it would work. Marxism leads to communism and that doesn't work. Don't think so? Look at the former Soviet Union for an example.

And Mike, unless I'm mistaken, the Book of Mormon also teaches us to not be slothful or lazy. Those who are not willing to do their part should not have as much as those who are.

2 million people (approx.) died in 1994 of measles. I know the figure because I saw the aftermath of a measles outbreak in the 3rd world.

What do you think the Book of Mormon's teachings think of that?

What does the Book of Mormon say about people who condemn the poor because they do not deserve any better?

Somewhere in heaven ETB is crying because he misled so many people to join an ideology that Satan reigns and rules over: that the strong must live, and the weak must die.

Your rantings ring hollow on me. I've seen the aftermath.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

2 million people (approx.) died in 1994 of measles. I know the figure because I saw the aftermath of a measles outbreak in the 3rd world.

What do you think the Book of Mormon's teachings think of that?

What does the Book of Mormon say about people who condemn the poor because they do not deserve any better?

Somewhere in heaven ETB is crying because he misled so many people to join an ideology that Satan reigns and rules over: that the strong must live, and the weak must die.

Your rantings ring hollow on me. I've seen the aftermath.

Did I say that the poor deserve to be poor? No, I said the poor need to do their part to no longer be poor.

Big difference, but you know that.

[Venkman]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

2 million people (approx.) died in 1994 of measles. I know the figure because I saw the aftermath of a measles outbreak in the 3rd world.

What do you think the Book of Mormon's teachings think of that?

What does the Book of Mormon say about people who condemn the poor because they do not deserve any better?

Somewhere in heaven ETB is crying because he misled so many people to join an ideology that Satan reigns and rules over: that the strong must live, and the weak must die.

Your rantings ring hollow on me. I've seen the aftermath.

Since when does caring for the poor in the scriptures mean "the Lord wants us to have socialist governments"? Giving to the poor should be a voluntary activity through charities and churches, not coerced at the point of a gun.

Socialism is Satan's lie.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Let's see, Obama thinks the wealth should be spread out more evenly amongst all, be it those who take the financial risk to make the money or the labor used to provide the service or goods. He doesn't believe some should have/earn more than others.

That is Marxism.

Cali, spare me the condescension about thinking I don't know what it is. Perhaps it just bothers you that your Messiah is just this side of being a communist.

Adam, it's not good policy. If it were, it would work. Marxism leads to communism and that doesn't work. Don't think so? Look at the former Soviet Union for an example.

And Mike, unless I'm mistaken, the Book of Mormon also teaches us to not be slothful or lazy. Those who are not willing to do their part should not have as much as those who are.

Republicans also believe wealth should be spread out "more evenly amongst all." The difference between them and Obama is one of degree. Nothing in the statement you cited above indicates that he wants all wealth equally distributed and all means of production owned by the government. He indicates he wants the wealth more evenly distributed, and all you hear is "Marxism."

The entire progressive tax system is one that advocates a more even distribution of wealth. The existence of welfare is as well, among many other aspects of our civilization. To take the leap that any advocacy for a more even distribution of wealth equates to Marxism is laughable.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Republicans also believe wealth should be spread out "more evenly amongst all." The difference between them and Obama is one of degree. Nothing in the statement you cited above indicates that he wants all wealth equally distributed and all means of production owned by the government. He indicates he wants the wealth more evenly distributed, and all you hear is "Marxism."

The entire progressive tax system is one that advocates a more even distribution of wealth. The existence of welfare is as well, among many other aspects of our civilization. To take the leap that any advocacy for a more even distribution of wealth equates to Marxism is laughable.

you are talking to people who would eliminate virtually all taxes and all safety nets.

poor kid sick? screw him. If he wants to live, a rich person needs to make a donation in his name.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

you are talking to people who would eliminate virtually all taxes and all safety nets.

poor kid sick? screw him. If he wants to live, a rich person needs to make a donation in his name.

This is what I don't understand....because it certainly sounds like that is what people are advocating...and I don't grasp that attitude.

It is like talking to my Utah FIL (not AZ FIL).....he says, "poor people are lazy and should work harder." While I dont disagree that SOME poor people are lazy and should work harder (as are some wealthy people), I can't understand how he has convinced himself to think in such black and white generalities...as though the magical solution for ALL downtrodden is simply to work harder.

I have stated before that I cut through Skid Row almost every day I work downtown because it saves me a chunk of time on my commute.

If I were any one of those people down there....and I saw the "light" today...and decided that tomorrow would be the day I begin to work harder....what the heck would I do without government programs to get me going? Who is realistically going to hire me? Or even talk to me? Where am I going to live? Shower? Many of these folks cannot even read and have nowhere to go. They want to change things, but the reality is that it is almost impossible.

I think the next time I drive through Skid Row, I will pull over and just tell everyone to work harder. Also, I will buy some crank.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Republicans also believe wealth should be spread out "more evenly amongst all." The difference between them and Obama is one of degree. Nothing in the statement you cited above indicates that he wants all wealth equally distributed and all means of production owned by the government. He indicates he wants the wealth more evenly distributed, and all you hear is "Marxism."

The entire progressive tax system is one that advocates a more even distribution of wealth. The existence of welfare is as well, among many other aspects of our civilization. To take the leap that any advocacy for a more even distribution of wealth equates to Marxism is laughable.

This debate is useless.

Obama's speech was clearly one of general political rhetoric, not specific policy.

Those that are nitpicking are just annoyed that he gave a nice speech and that everyone cheered loudly for him.

People should be less concerned with Obama's speech and more concerned (and honest) about why our current sitting President doesn't enjoy anywhere near that sort of respect, love, or even passing interest abroad.

I was happy to see crowds of pro-US foreigners. I think Obama did a nice job with his speech. I doubt very highly that his speech will save the world and I doubt even more that it was a masked attempt to advocate a shift from capitalism. Attemps to deconstruct the speech are pointless. Wait until he gives a SOTU address and then we can talk.

And for those anti-socialists, again I ask you....how did you enjoy those government subsidized student loans?

On a side note, and I mean this honestly....what the heck is McCain doing right now? Where is he? Why is he not doing high profile things to up his visibility?