So with the State of the Union

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

The Repubican Revolution is over, in that GOP has lost credibility. The long-lastin effect is that they have dragged the left rightward.

I agree. I've always been registered Republican and this is the closest I've ever come to turning in my card. In the end, though, I decided it's simpler to continue my current policy of supporting red teams only.

Originally Posted by Archaea

Both parties have failed and neither has any new ideas. Our body politic is dead, but nobody knows it.

Yes. The only thing that ever changes is which party is abusing power.

[YOhio]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Both parties have failed and neither has any new ideas. Our body politic is dead, but nobody knows it.

Funny you would say that. You've always seemed like such an optimistic guy. At what point did it die? Was it the Republican failure to deliver on the Contract with America? Was it Congressional fascination with Presidential felatio at the expense of real legislation? Bush v. Gore? 9-11 and the subsequent partisanship? The Dem takeover of Congress?

I'm genuinely curious how you reached your conclusion.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by YOhio

Funny you would say that. You've always seemed like such an optimistic guy. At what point did it die? Was it the Republican failure to deliver on the Contract with America? Was it Congressional fascination with Presidential felatio at the expense of real legislation? Bush v. Gore? 9-11 and the subsequent partisanship? The Dem takeover of Congress?

I'm genuinely curious how you reached your conclusion.

My guess is that it died long before any of us here were born. Partisan politics have been around for about as long as the country has existed; it just gets more and more partisan each generation.

[Detroitdad]

Originally Posted by ute4ever

I wonder what percentage of voters will strip their 2008 ballot down into two elements:

(1) The republican following Bush, vs.
(2) The Non-Bush party

And vote for the Dems based solely on that.

I think you can count on about 80-85 of voters falling into one these two categories. Which will make for another miserable election, with both sides tearing the other down rather than trying to win the voters over to their side.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Detroitdad

I think you can count on about 80-85 of voters falling into one these two categories. Which will make for another miserable election, with both sides tearing the other down rather than trying to win the voters over to their side.

I cannot remember an election since 1964 where this has not been a case. For a long time, I was a politicophile.

It is always negative, degrading, dehumanizing according the social mores. Usually, politics leads in eliminating civility. It will be no different.

[Detroitdad]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I cannot remember an election since 1964 where this has not been a case. For a long time, I was a politicophile.

It is always negative, degrading, dehumanizing according the social mores. Usually, politics leads in eliminating civility. It will be no different.

I agree, but I think that the incivility has taken an uptick in this decade, largely because of the demographic parity that has put the parties on relatively equal footing. This, combined with more statistical techniques in campaigning and turnout has driven down the standard of political decorum to resemble a Jerry Springer show, without all the redeeming qualities.

Hopefully, some demographic changes that will push the parties into a postion of winning votes on policies rather than polemics.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Detroitdad

I agree, but I think that the incivility has taken an uptick in this decade, largely because of the demographic parity that has put the parties on relatively equal footing. This, combined with more statistical techniques in campaigning and turnout has driven down the standard of political decorum to resemble a Jerry Springer show, without all the redeeming qualities.

Hopefully, some demographic changes that will push the parties into a postion of winning votes on policies rather than polemics.

Won't happen.

We govern based on diatribe and catastrophe or crisis. Once you become a bureaucratic behemoth such as we are, it takes strange events to turn the gigantic ship around.

[Detroitdad]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Won't happen.

We govern based on diatribe and catastrophe or crisis. Once you become a bureaucratic behemoth such as we are, it takes strange events to turn the gigantic ship around.

I think that it can happen.

The growth in the number of independents is one sign that this is a possibility.

Another sign that it might happen is the movement of primaries, and the emergence fo the open primary in which voters from all parties can take power out of the hands of the party activists.

I am not saying that it is likely in the short term, but there are some changes in the electorate and the structure of elections that will push in that direction.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Detroitdad

I think that it can happen.

The growth in the number of independents is one sign that this is a possibility.

Another sign that it might happen is the movement of primaries, and the emergence fo the open primary in which voters from all parties can take power out of the hands of the party activists.

I am not saying that it is likely in the short term, but there are some changes in the electorate and the structure of elections that will push in that direction.

With the influx of immigrants who come from a culture of little education, we will become less educated, and more ignorant of governance, thereby becoming more subject to these tactics.