is it only me thats confused...... - Page 2 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

cougjunkie · 01-09-2006, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by non sequitur

Quote:

Originally Posted by fusnik11

i have talked to many people, as in more than 100, about their comfort level with certain sexual activity. the overwhelming opinion is this, and if you have a different experience please share

I have to admit that this cracked me up. I'm not sure I'm even on a speaking basis with 100 different, let alone know 100 people well enough that I would query them on their respective stances on dry-humping versus genital manipulation. I just hope you're not approaching random strangers with these questions. When you're in line at Albertsons, do you tap the shoulder of the lady in front of you and say, "Excuse me, you don't know me but I'd be really interested to know your feelings on the spiritual ramifications of the various forms of sexual outercourse."

Now thats funny!

"Excuse me ma'am when you and your husband were dating did you ever dry hump? and if so did you talk to your bishop about it? or did you feel like it was something you could take care of on your own? and what about him feeling you up?"

I can see it, Fusnik is a pretty blunt guy.

RockyBalboa · 01-09-2006, 06:49 PM

Speaking personally, and my visits with the Bishop and Stake President and I'm probably divulging more than I ought to, but in my experience The Law of Chastity is just as much for your spiritual well being than the physical being for a number of reasons.

I know, speaking for myself, not others here, that when you commit sexual sin and behave in certain manners, that afterward, I've offended the Spirit and it has left me. It makes it difficult to not that have assistance and guidance in life when you reach important decisions.

Sometimes they are small decisions, sometimes they are big decisions, but when you offend the spirit to the point of it leaving you, then you'll struggle spiritually. Maybe that's too simple, and it's a lot more complex than that, but that's been my experience.

Sorry, I'm not sure if what I said made any sense. My bad if it was clear as mud.

Also, I know the Bishops I've spoken with and what they've told me that if an act of intimacy leads to ejaculation, then that's considered to not be a good thing. I'm sure some Bishops aren't as strict on the DH thing, but most would agree that if it leads to ejacluation then there's a problem.

Archaea · 01-09-2006, 07:02 PM

this discussion is why I never want to be bishop in a university ward.

Please no.

Sins separates from God. Do you think you can run away from God?

In courting, if you're arousing sexual feelings, then you're headed in the wrong direction and need to pull back. This is of course our standard, not the standard of anybody other than LDS.

non sequitur · 01-09-2006, 07:07 PM

On a serious note, if your ultimate goal is to avoid sex then you probably shouldn't dry-hump or pet. Dry-humping is sex. Genital manipulation is sex. Fellatio and cunnilingus are both sex.

People need to ask themselves why they are refraining from certain sexual practices. Is it because they want to have pure thoughts (whatever that means), or because they don't want to impregnate someone else, or because they simply want to be obedient to other people's counsel? You need to define your own standards and not rely so much on what other people say is right or wrong.

Personally, I think the Church's preoccupation with sex is ironic. This a religion that was built on the concept of having lots of sex with lots of different women. If you have 40 wives it's not about intimacy or devotion; it's about sex. Now 100 years later, sex is all of the sudden something sacred and should never be dabbled in casually. I don't buy it.

Archaea · 01-09-2006, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by non sequitur

On a serious note, if your ultimate goal is to avoid sex then you probably shouldn't dry-hump or pet. Dry-humping is sex. Genital manipulation is sex. Fellatio and cunnilingus are both sex.

People need to ask themselves why they are refraining from certain sexual practices. Is it because they want to have pure thoughts (whatever that means), or because they don't want to impregnate someone else, or because they simply want to be obedient to other people's counsel? You need to define your own standards and not rely so much on what other people say is right or wrong.

Personally, I think the Church's preoccupation with sex is ironic. This a religion that was built on the concept of having lots of sex with lots of different women. If you have 40 wives it's not about intimacy or devotion; it's about sex. Now 100 years later, sex is all of the sudden something sacred and should never be dabbled in casually. I don't buy it.

I'm not certain you and I will ever completely agree, but I'm trying understand your last statement.

You don't buy that sex is sacred, or what?

Sex should be meaningful, and kept with the bounds of matrimony IMHO. I'm not exactly certain what saying "sex is sacred" means. When I think of sacredness, I think of quiet reverence, seeking to reach into my inner most thoughts to contemplate the sublime.

I don't really think of that when I think of sex, even with my wife. So for me there is a disonnect.

Sex is about connecting with somebody you care about. Sometimes, honestly speaking, for guys, it's just about getting your rocks off.

Whatever your views, Hollywood's perspective is not one I share.

non sequitur · 01-09-2006, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

You don't buy that sex is sacred, or what?

Sex should be meaningful, and kept with the bounds of matrimony IMHO. I'm not exactly certain what saying "sex is sacred" means. When I think of sacredness, I think of quiet reverence, seeking to reach into my inner most thoughts to contemplate the sublime.

I don't really think of that when I think of sex, even with my wife. So for me there is a disonnect.

Sex is about connecting with somebody you care about. Sometimes, honestly speaking, for guys, it's just about getting your rocks off.

When I was young I was always taught that sex was sacred and for that reason was only practiced by a man and a wife. Sex is a lot of things. Aside from the purely biological function of sex and the whole promulgation of the species thing, sex is about intimacy, but it is also to some degree a form of recreation (or as you say "getting your rocks off").

When I said "I don't buy it", I was referring to the notion that there is something sacred about sex. There is nothing sacred about it at all. At least not if you're doing right.

fusnik11 · 01-09-2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

Speaking personally, and my visits with the Bishop and Stake President and I'm probably divulging more than I ought to, but in my experience The Law of Chastity is just as much for your spiritual well being than the physical being for a number of reasons.

see i thought this way as well, but dont know if i think this way now. are you spiritually being defunct, or are you simply guilting yourself away from the spiritual side of your being? i think quite often about the spencer w. kimpball story of him avising a young man to request a blessing from his alcoholic and inactive father. if sin was so abundant in this sinners life how was he able to give a blessing full of the spirit and how was this blessing a catalyst back into activity? was it that the spirit was always there, but the persons inner guilt prevented the spirit from being an infuential piece in the individuals life?

non-sequitur brings up a salient point, the church in its beginning did not regard sex as a sacred act, yet a means to procriate and bring up seed. when you are having relations with 30 plus women, how sacred, intimate and special can your sexual experiences be? how come now sex is this super sacred practice that has huge spiritual implications if abused.

Alkili · 01-09-2006, 08:41 PM

We do things because the Lord has asked us to do it. We have sex accourding to the boundries that the Lord has set. whether or not it gives us physical benifits isn't the point in being obedient in all things. It doesn't help anything to tell yourself that sin doesn't matter.

Live your life to the best of your ablilites and when you make mistakes go to the Lord in repentance. You sound to me as if you are trying to justify something, all that does it twist the world around yourself so you feel better about it. If I were you I would ask God what He thinks, all other opionions may or may not be true. If this is an honest question then, maybe you should go to the temple and see if that doesn't help you answer your question.

realtall · 01-10-2006, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrumNFeather

We had an interesting remark made by our stake pres at the last stake conf...he noted that we need to make sure that we not waste bishop's time with minor infractions that could easily be handled by us and the lord...and so, while the major infractions still go through priesthood leadership, some minor things or...less serious can be handle through personal prayer and what not.

I had always been told that if there was any doubt as to whether you need to see your bishop for a sin(esp sex/morality-related, which is what we were talking about - this was when I was in YM), go see him. This is probably a good rule of thumb for anything that you feel maybe questionable.

It sounds like your stake pres is telling everybody to go the other direction.

On the other hand, maybe members were going to their bishops for really petty stuff, i.e. 'My neighbor plays music too loud at night and I've gotten into several yelling matches with him. Is this wrong?' or (and tell me if you've heard this one), 'Sister Jones has been talking about me behind me my back and spreading all kinds of vicious lies about me. This just makes me soooo mad.' The last one seems to be very popular with the rs.

01-09-2006, 07:02 PM	#13
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	this discussion is why I never want to be bishop in a university ward. Please no. Sins separates from God. Do you think you can run away from God? In courting, if you're arousing sexual feelings, then you're headed in the wrong direction and need to pull back. This is of course our standard, not the standard of anybody other than LDS. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

01-09-2006, 08:41 PM	#18
Alkili Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Utah Posts: 263	We do things because the Lord has asked us to do it. We have sex accourding to the boundries that the Lord has set. whether or not it gives us physical benifits isn't the point in being obedient in all things. It doesn't help anything to tell yourself that sin doesn't matter. Live your life to the best of your ablilites and when you make mistakes go to the Lord in repentance. You sound to me as if you are trying to justify something, all that does it twist the world around yourself so you feel better about it. If I were you I would ask God what He thinks, all other opionions may or may not be true. If this is an honest question then, maybe you should go to the temple and see if that doesn't help you answer your question. __________________ Dark is the Night, but I begin to see the light.

01-09-2006, 06:49 PM	#12
RockyBalboa Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 7,297	Speaking personally, and my visits with the Bishop and Stake President and I'm probably divulging more than I ought to, but in my experience The Law of Chastity is just as much for your spiritual well being than the physical being for a number of reasons. I know, speaking for myself, not others here, that when you commit sexual sin and behave in certain manners, that afterward, I've offended the Spirit and it has left me. It makes it difficult to not that have assistance and guidance in life when you reach important decisions. Sometimes they are small decisions, sometimes they are big decisions, but when you offend the spirit to the point of it leaving you, then you'll struggle spiritually. Maybe that's too simple, and it's a lot more complex than that, but that's been my experience. Sorry, I'm not sure if what I said made any sense. My bad if it was clear as mud. Also, I know the Bishops I've spoken with and what they've told me that if an act of intimacy leads to ejaculation, then that's considered to not be a good thing. I'm sure some Bishops aren't as strict on the DH thing, but most would agree that if it leads to ejacluation then there's a problem.

01-09-2006, 07:07 PM	#14
non sequitur Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,964	On a serious note, if your ultimate goal is to avoid sex then you probably shouldn't dry-hump or pet. Dry-humping is sex. Genital manipulation is sex. Fellatio and cunnilingus are both sex. People need to ask themselves why they are refraining from certain sexual practices. Is it because they want to have pure thoughts (whatever that means), or because they don't want to impregnate someone else, or because they simply want to be obedient to other people's counsel? You need to define your own standards and not rely so much on what other people say is right or wrong. Personally, I think the Church's preoccupation with sex is ironic. This a religion that was built on the concept of having lots of sex with lots of different women. If you have 40 wives it's not about intimacy or devotion; it's about sex. Now 100 years later, sex is all of the sudden something sacred and should never be dabbled in casually. I don't buy it.