Now that the LDS Church has raised the

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

I once went on a couple of dates with a girl who told me that she had engaged in fellatio once, and she confessed to her bishop. I asked her what the bishop asked during the interview, and she said that he told her that he needed details in order to understand how serious the sin was. For example, the bishop asked whether the guy ejaculated, and he told her that this was a critical piece of information.

When I told her that the bishop was a perv, she got REALLY mad at me. I didn't go out with her again.

Since I know my audience , I won't use the term "institutionalized child abuse", but I will say that the way the Church messes with kids heads is close to shameful.

[DrumNFeather]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I wish an informed physician would chime in here, but it seems we have lots of children taking medications for psychological diseases. Does society seek it out too much, or was society just under-treated previously?

Is Dr. Neibaur still practicing down in that area? He gave a great fireside one time on depression among church members.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I think the judgement of men whether it be mission president or high council to be a bit on the Tex side of power mongering and graceless.

Oh my. What a graceless thing to say.

Originally Posted by Requiem

My experience is that alot more missionaries are being sent home early, sometimes for questionable reasons and the negative consequences to the missionary and his/her family are severe and lifelong. For good reason, I have strong feelings on this topic. ...

So it is your contention that your niece's ambivalent feelings toward the church and her parents' troubled marriage can all be laid at the feet of a mission president who sent her home prematurely?

I've known a few missionaries to come home early in my day. Some weather it and some don't, and as you note, much of their success has to do with the support they receive from those around them.

I can think of one relative in particular who returned home after 2 days in the MTC to resolve some chastity issues. He came home "on fire" as they say, reading his scriptures every day, determined to return. He unfortunately did not receive good priesthood support. The brethren around him tragically dropped the ball, were indifferent to his circumstances, and eventually he fell away. His family remains active and he is not hostile to the church, but he has "moved on." He is still young, and we can remain hopeful, but I wonder how much different his life would have been had he received the local support he needed.

That being said, I find your story to be a little one-sided. While there are those in any ward who judge and demean someone who returns early, I have not encountered the widespread ostracism you describe ... to the point of destroying someone's marriage. If what you say is really true, then obviously there is a problem with much of the community in which they live. It is without question contrary to the spirit of everything the gospel means.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Tex

That being said, I find your story to be a little one-sided. While there are those in any ward who judge and demean someone who returns early, I have not encountered the widespread ostracism you describe ... to the point of destroying someone's marriage. If what you say is really true, then obviously there is a problem with much of the community in which they live. It is without question contrary to the spirit of everything the gospel means.

This was my reaction as well. My ward has had a couple fo missionaries return home ealry. My family has had the same thing happen. I have not seen anyone be ostracized from family or from the ward and, to the contrary, in my ward, I think people tend to be very solicitous and try to be helpful. I am sure there are wards where early returnees may feel ostracized, but I do not think it is the norm.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I wish an informed physician would chime in here, but it seems we have lots of children taking medications for psychological diseases. Does society seek it out too much, or was society just under-treated previously?

Both. Is that enough enlightenment on the subject?

To elaborate, I think it's a little ridiculous to assume that real depression/anxiety exist only in people over 21 (or 18, or whatever the cutoff is), although that is the assumption the medical community worked under for years. As soon as you identify a biochemical basis for depression, you also admit it can exist any age. That is being done more and more frequently and appropriately so. The challenge comes in distinguishing normal adolescent angst (or stress of mission field) from pathologic depression, and I think it's occasionally being overdiagnosed.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by Tex

That being said, I find your story to be a little one-sided. While there are those in any ward who judge and demean someone who returns early, I have not encountered the widespread ostracism you describe ... to the point of destroying someone's marriage. If what you say is really true, then obviously there is a problem with much of the community in which they live. It is without question contrary to the spirit of everything the gospel means.

You are correct that I am one-sided (and emotional to a fault) on this topic and have not spoken to all the involved parties. The community and ward in CA where my aunt and uncle reside is very upscale - huge homes, all the toys, competition, etc. There appears to be this underlying requirement to raise what those in the ward perceive to be 100% perfect kids (i.e. missions, temple marriages, etc.), and exhibit all of the outer trappings of material success. Those who fall short of this supposed norm are isolated.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

Both. The challenge comes in distinguishing normal adolescent angst (or stress of mission field) from pathologic depression, and I think it's occasionally being overdiagnosed.

If somebody has pathological depression, then it should be treated. And I was under the impression it's more pronounced and diagnosable in persons over 21.

However, there seems to be a tendency that if a kid misbehaves or suffers from some sort of angst, we need to jump to the meds. I'm familiar with entire families where every individual has a panoply of meds by the time he or she is ten.

Of course, that is anecdotal, and not useful.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

If somebody has pathological depression, then it should be treated. And I was under the impression it's more pronounced and diagnosable in persons over 21.

However, there seems to be a tendency that if a kid misbehaves or suffers from some sort of angst, we need to jump to the meds. I'm familiar with entire families where every individual has a panoply of meds by the time he or she is ten.

Of course, that is anecdotal, and not useful.

Psychotherapy + meds is much more effective than meds alone or psychotherapy alone.

Some things are overdiagnosed, but I think giving meds without psychotherapy is a big problem (although this isn't my expertise by a long shot).

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Requiem

You are correct that I am one-sided (and emotional to a fault) on this topic and have not spoken to all the involved parties. The community and ward in CA where my aunt and uncle reside is very upscale - huge homes, all the toys, competition, etc. There appears to be this underlying requirement to raise what those in the ward perceive to be 100% perfect kids (i.e. missions, temple marriages, etc.), and exhibit all of the outer trappings of material success. Those who fall short of this supposed norm are isolated.

Wow, you told Tex he is correct. Has Tex ever told anyone they were correct when discussing something. I know he will back track and claim he didn't say what he did. However, has he ever issued the words, you are correct or I was wrong.

[woot]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

I once went on a couple of dates with a girl who told me that she had engaged in fellatio once, and she confessed to her bishop. I asked her what the bishop asked during the interview, and she said that he told her that he needed details in order to understand how serious the sin was. For example, the bishop asked whether the guy ejaculated, and he told her that this was a critical piece of information.

When I told her that the bishop was a perv, she got REALLY mad at me. I didn't go out with her again.

I also was once friends with a girl that had to describe in detail how many times in and out, etc. She got the real impression that the bishop was getting a chub about it. She went inactive shortly thereafter, and as far as I know is still inactive 10-15 years later.