Delbert L. Stapley Letter - Page 5 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

MikeWaters · 04-22-2008, 08:46 PM

A good secretary (assuming one typed this letter up) would have tried to prevent Elder Stapely from sending it. He/she would have said, "do you really want to send this letter? Tell you what, I'll keep it in my drawer, and if you still want to send it tomorrow, I will send it."

This letter is one of the most embarrassing things I have ever read, and is a black mark on the quorum.

Indy Coug · 04-22-2008, 08:49 PM

You pulled a thread that had been mothballed for 4 months for that comment?

MikeWaters · 04-22-2008, 08:53 PM

Indy, I looked up this thread when wondering whether Elder Packer's comments about women would be compared to this one.

And then I remembered what a mentor told me: "my secretary has saved me innumerable times from sending out angry letters that I never should have written."

I really like Stapely's letter for one reason: to reasonable people, it definitively shows that apostles are human with real, significant foibles.

Most people here believe that. But there are a lot of people that don't. And there are people who claim that racism was never a part of the blacks and priesthood practice/doctrine. In one letter, Elder Stapely refuted both.

And the ironic thing is that I never recalled hearing his name before I saw this letter. If this letter is his primary public legacy, then that is an interesting legacy. And in some ways, an important one.

In a strange way, I think this awful letter pushes the work forward.

UtahDan · 04-22-2008, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Indy, I looked up this thread when wondering whether Elder Packer's comments about women would be compared to this one.

What are you referring to?

I agreed with your comments by the way.

Jeff Lebowski · 04-22-2008, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam

It is interesting to note that God allowed Stapley to live long enough to see the priesthood and temple blessings extend to Blacks, but didn't allow him to be well enough to be a part of the process or meeting where revelation confirmed Pres. Kimball's decision. Stapley was very ill in the hospital during the month leading up to and during the time of the 2nd Official Declaration. He was too ill and not consulted. Interesting to me anyway.

I'll be darned. That's downright miraculous.

Archaea · 04-22-2008, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I'll be darned. That's downright miraculous.

Miracles don't happen.

Tex · 04-23-2008, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I really like Stapely's letter for one reason: to reasonable people, it definitively shows that apostles are human with real, significant foibles.

Can't hurt to feel a little schadenfreud at that either, right Mike?

MikeWaters · 04-23-2008, 12:06 AM

Tex, time has given me the perspective to go from outrage to believing the letter is a good thing for the church. He has helped reform the church.

MikeWaters · 05-26-2008, 11:21 PM

As I have been reading and thinking about the plight of the Palestinians, this same letter came back to my mind.

As I think of those Israelis who are intensely discomfited by the actions of their state, who feel those actions have been immoral, but who are savaged by their own and called traitors.

Romney was one of those. And Stapely was part of the old guard who couldn't stand that liberal position. Blacks with civil rights???

Now in 2008, Palestinians with civil rights???

ERCougar · 05-27-2008, 01:06 AM

Some of the interesting (to me) points that have arisen in this discussion:
1) I actually agree with SU that an apology to AA's from the church is in order. I even agree with the wording he chose, with the exception of some of the language towards the end.
2) I don't agree that JS was racist. The one actual citation (courtesy Lebowski, I think) actually seems pretty progressive for 1850. No response to this, SU?
3) Interesting statement by Adam that the prophets and apostles are no more righteous or inspired than the rest of us--their callings are just different. I'll have to think about this one.

04-22-2008, 08:46 PM	#41
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	A good secretary (assuming one typed this letter up) would have tried to prevent Elder Stapely from sending it. He/she would have said, "do you really want to send this letter? Tell you what, I'll keep it in my drawer, and if you still want to send it tomorrow, I will send it." This letter is one of the most embarrassing things I have ever read, and is a black mark on the quorum.

04-22-2008, 08:49 PM	#42
Indy Coug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Iraq and a hard place Posts: 7,569	You pulled a thread that had been mothballed for 4 months for that comment?

04-22-2008, 08:53 PM	#43
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Indy, I looked up this thread when wondering whether Elder Packer's comments about women would be compared to this one. And then I remembered what a mentor told me: "my secretary has saved me innumerable times from sending out angry letters that I never should have written." I really like Stapely's letter for one reason: to reasonable people, it definitively shows that apostles are human with real, significant foibles. Most people here believe that. But there are a lot of people that don't. And there are people who claim that racism was never a part of the blacks and priesthood practice/doctrine. In one letter, Elder Stapely refuted both. And the ironic thing is that I never recalled hearing his name before I saw this letter. If this letter is his primary public legacy, then that is an interesting legacy. And in some ways, an important one. In a strange way, I think this awful letter pushes the work forward.

04-23-2008, 12:06 AM	#48
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Tex, time has given me the perspective to go from outrage to believing the letter is a good thing for the church. He has helped reform the church.

05-26-2008, 11:21 PM	#49
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	As I have been reading and thinking about the plight of the Palestinians, this same letter came back to my mind. As I think of those Israelis who are intensely discomfited by the actions of their state, who feel those actions have been immoral, but who are savaged by their own and called traitors. Romney was one of those. And Stapely was part of the old guard who couldn't stand that liberal position. Blacks with civil rights??? Now in 2008, Palestinians with civil rights???

05-27-2008, 01:06 AM	#50
ERCougar Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,589	Some of the interesting (to me) points that have arisen in this discussion: 1) I actually agree with SU that an apology to AA's from the church is in order. I even agree with the wording he chose, with the exception of some of the language towards the end. 2) I don't agree that JS was racist. The one actual citation (courtesy Lebowski, I think) actually seems pretty progressive for 1850. No response to this, SU? 3) Interesting statement by Adam that the prophets and apostles are no more righteous or inspired than the rest of us--their callings are just different. I'll have to think about this one.