More fallout from gay marriage spat

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by SteelBlue

You know, I often wonder if our kids will be talking about our parents' generation, (and ours to a lesser extent) in the same way that we talk about our grandparents' generation in relation to blacks and the priesthood. They'll wonder how we could have been so out of touch.

It is already happening, hermano.

My niece was in a HS play called (quite humerously) "The Phantom of the Oprah." I asked her if they had a black student playing Oprah and my niece swiftly corrected me saying that african american is the terminology of chouce.

I dont view this is PC gone amok, but rather as evidence of your hypothesis.

I think in 20 years, we will all look back at this and say to ourselves, "why the heck did I care so much if two gay people wanted to wear rings and get married?" I dont think homosexuality will be acceptable within the Gospel, but I do think that, as a whole, we will be more aware and sensitive in greater numbers towards gays.

Unfortunately, we will have also likely moved on to the next group to fear, hate, and ostracize. Maybe amputees? The elderly? Cyclists?

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Is it possible to think that gay marriage is not a good idea without being called a homophobe. I am against gay marriage. The fact I am wouldn't make me do any of the 3 things you mentioned.

For me personally, I would say absolutely.

If what you say is accurate, you are someone who, for personal spirutal reasons, does not approve of gay marriage, yet would still treat homosexuals with respect in social and familial settings.

This doesnt sound like homophobia to me. I would assume you feel the same way about....say....smokers? Not a smoker yourself and are against it, but you dont fear or hate smokers as a group.

I think homophobia creeps in when the fear is irrational. Those who think all gays will molest kids, you cant have gays in your home, etc.....that kind of stuff I just dont get. I can appreciate that it is a tough issue, though.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

... The elderly? ...

The oldies will always be ostracised.
I'm slitting my wrists when I turn 83. I shant be one who aimlessly stares at the grocery store aisle with my cart turned at an angle and lines of people in both directions trying to get past.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Solon

My grandpa tells a story about his grandpa. Apparently, back in Draper, UT in the early 1900s, this ancestor (named Leonard) and his stake president got into a tiff over irrigation rights (the history of the west is the history of water rights, IMO). Apparently, the SP got so angry he had Leonard ex'd. At a church meeting shortly thereafter, President Joseph F. Smith showed up and asked Leonard to come sit on the stand with him. When Leonard explained that he couldn't since he had been ex'd, President Smith said something like, "Oh, whatever. You're not excommunicated." And Leonard went up on the stand and lived the rest of his life as if nothing had ever happened. No rebaptism or anything.

That's the story, anyway - don't know if it's very true but it's a nice family story.

That's a great story. You should find the actual sources and document it for your family and for others.

If their is any rallying cry to this website, it is "the church is a big tent." "You don't think anyone thinks like you, well there are actually a lot of people who do. You are not alone.

We are just one small foot soldier in a larger cultural "battle". We are not the "loyal opposition". We are merely people who would like to open discuss those things which we never have the opportunity to discuss in our day-to-day lives.

At least, that's what I aspire to. I don't have a problem with the mullahs, as long as they do not rip the stakes of zion and shrink this tent. They have no right. The small tent is their own mental creation.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

It is already happening, hermano.

My niece was in a HS play called (quite humerously) "The Phantom of the Oprah." I asked her if they had a black student playing Oprah and my niece swiftly corrected me saying that african american is the terminology of chouce.

I dont view this is PC gone amok, but rather as evidence of your hypothesis.

I think in 20 years, we will all look back at this and say to ourselves, "why the heck did I care so much if two gay people wanted to wear rings and get married?" I dont think homosexuality will be acceptable within the Gospel, but I do think that, as a whole, we will be more aware and sensitive in greater numbers towards gays.

Unfortunately, we will have also likely moved on to the next group to fear, hate, and ostracize. Maybe amputees? The elderly? Cyclists?

My guess is the next group to be feared, hated and ostracized will be pedaphiles. Maybe in 40 years we will be able to accept them too. Someday hopefully we will be able to live in a world where no social behavior is not accepted.

How long before you think we will be able to get porn on regular TV without paying for it.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Triplet, you're being too harsh on the members.

In gay couples, they represent something which is very difficult for the members to understand. Gay copulation is a sin in the eyes of most members. So they won't know how to respond.

Some will respond cautiously, some will stand off and some will act as they would with heterosexual couples. You take social conservatives and can't expect them to behave as if they were living on Castro Street in San Francisco.

I suspect members would treat gay couples better than they will treat members who support gay couples.

Your point is more than fair and admittedly, I did not articulate well.

Also interesting is the notion that, to many members, gay individuals represent homoerotic copulation first, not child of God first. This, my friend, is homophobia. If you look at a gay person and think "you have sex with men" as opposed to "hey, new person in my ward," then there is an irrational phobia going on there, at least in my opinion. I'm no expert, though.

I completely agree that there will be a spectrum...some will treat others well, some will be standoffish, others will be rude and cold.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

That's a great story. You should find the actual sources and document it for your family and for others.

If their is any rallying cry to this website, it is "the church is a big tent." "You don't think anyone thinks like you, well there are actually a lot of people who do. You are not alone.

We are just one small foot soldier in a larger cultural "battle". We are not the "loyal opposition". We are merely people who would like to open discuss those things which we never have the opportunity to discuss in our day-to-day lives.

At least, that's what I aspire to. I don't have a problem with the mullahs, as long as they do not rip the stakes of zion and shrink this tent. They have no right. The small tent is their own mental creation.

My tent got bigger just reading this post.

Inspiring!

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

For me personally, I would say absolutely.

If what you say is accurate, you are someone who, for personal spirutal reasons, does not approve of gay marriage, yet would still treat homosexuals with respect in social and familial settings.

This doesnt sound like homophobia to me. I would assume you feel the same way about....say....smokers? Not a smoker yourself and are against it, but you dont fear or hate smokers as a group.

I think homophobia creeps in when the fear is irrational. Those who think all gays will molest kids, you cant have gays in your home, etc.....that kind of stuff I just dont get. I can appreciate that it is a tough issue, though.

Agree. There are people in the church I would call non-LDS o phobes. Non active=LDS o phobes.

For instance, I would not treat a homosexual couple any different than some people I know who live together and aren't married. As long as they don't push their lifestyle on me or what I am trying to teach my kids.

I teach my kids to get married first. I teach them that is for their benefit not because people who don't are bad people.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by BYU71

My guess is the next group to be feared, hated and ostracized will be pedaphiles. Maybe in 40 years we will be able to accept them too. Someday hopefully we will be able to live in a world where no social behavior is not accepted.

How long before you think we will be able to get porn on regular TV without paying for it.

Ah, the pedophile argument. Good one. Pwned. The two issues are strikingly similar.

I predict your next post will be one of the two:

1. The "what if a person wants to marry an animal?" argument
2. The story about your fraternity voting and blackballs.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Agree. There are people in the church I would call non-LDS o phobes. Non active=LDS o phobes.

For instance, I would not treat a homosexual couple any different than some people I know who live together and aren't married. As long as they don't push their lifestyle on me or what I am trying to teach my kids.

I teach my kids to get married first. I teach them that is for their benefit not because people who don't are bad people.

I dont see any of that as being homophobic. Again, I am not an expert.