The church has spoken...

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by BlueHair

Would you support an amendment prohibiting people who broke the Law of Chastity or Word of Wisdom from marrying? If so, I would say you are a bigot.

I think it depends on their agenda. The only reason the amendment is necessary is because of the agenda the gay movement has to MAKE everyone believe the way they do. If youy don't, you are branded a bigot.

Are kids being taught in school that marriage is an antiquated thing that should be done away with and co-habitiation is perfectly normal and okay? And that if you believe otherwise you are a bigot?

[bluegoose]

Originally Posted by FMCoug

Do they? Homosexuality is SUCH a problematic issue and my heart goes out to those who have to deal with it either personally or in their family. I have several gay friends who are LDS or former LDS and I really have no answer for them.

But the bottom line is this. Homosexual relationships are NOT in concert with the gospel. They just aren't. That has been made clear over and over. Since the family is central to the plan of Salvation, how do you reconcile homosexuality. You can't.

So how exactly do you make a place for them in the Church? Love them, support them in their rightous endeavors, etc. absolutely. But the bottom line is that they are not going to feel a part of the church with family relationships being such a big part of it.

I really have no answer. It's one of the "god will sort it all out" things to me.

There are a lot of things that are not in concert with the gospel. You could name 100 of them. I'm sure that you could even name a couple of dozen forces that are more destructive to family relationships than gay marriage. How many of these forces has the church and its members recently invested millions of dollars and countless hours to legislate against, and in doing so, shun and isolate those members or their sympathizers that struggle with the particular problem?

I don't know how you make a place for them in the church. But what we're doing right now is probably not it.

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by bluegoose

There are a lot of things that are not in concert with the gospel. You could name 100 of them. I'm sure that you could even name a couple of dozen forces that are more destructive to family relationships than gay marriage. How many of these forces has the church and its members recently invested millions of dollars and countless hours to legislate against, and in doing so, shun and isolate those members or their sympathizers that struggle with the particular problem?

I don't know how you make a place for them in the church. But what we're doing right now is probably not it.

I can't think of any of those 100 things that have such an organized movement behind them to "normalize" them. That is the issue IMO.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by Flystripper

It does not suck for me as much as it does for my friends and family that are gay, but you are right, it does suck. It sucks to have to have individual bigotry by members of the church validated. It sucks to see marriages between 2 loving gay people end. It will suck to see the marriages that have already occurred between 2 loving gay people invalidated. You are right Tex losing this battle does suck. It is a sad sad day today.

Congratulations Yes on 8 voters. Your right to discriminate was reinstated. Let's all throw a party.

I knew you had a dog in this race. I specifically asked if you did but you declined to respond.

Perhaps Lehi should have changed what he was commanded to do because Laman and Lemuel had other ideas? It's ok if you chose to follow your family instead of the counsel by the Prophet.

That's the beauty of agency.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Once again, it is a hollow victory. This fact that they even feel the need to issue a statement like this illustrates that the battle was "won" but at tremendous cost. The church will be paying for this for a long time, IMO.

As will the catholics, blacks, hispanics? Or is it just the LDS Church?

Same reason Ohbama won. Organization and planning.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by FMCoug

I can't think of any of those 100 things that have such an organized movement behind them to "normalize" them. That is the issue IMO.

This has been repeated so many times now it's a wonder anyone asks the question anymore.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by OrangeUte

i don't know of MANY definitions of bigotry. i'm sure that there's only one... however, if i had to define the concept, i would say it is an unwavering dedication to prejudice irregardless of any argument otherwise.

i dont' have time to grab a dictionary but i would imagine it's something like that.

the church won't meet with gay members on the issue but instead puts out statements that cling to faulty logic and reasoning. bigotted. that they rely on a claim of deity/inspiration doesn't change the application of the term biggoted to the conduct except as a justification - not an exception.

The church has always told us to love those who are different. They just didn't want that group dictating to society what the definition of marriage is and what it stands for. Nothing bigoted about that.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by OrangeUte

the church had favor with me, some of which is lost because of this incident.

Hey if it wasn't this issue, it would be another. There are folks like you who simply look to be offended. So be it.

[bluegoose]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Again, if I were gay, I'd be outta here, even without this action. And I'd advise friends and family the same. This Church does not have what gays need. It's not very singles friendly either, but that's another matter. Maybe this is a silent way of admitting that.

There are a lot of people that struggle with things the church teaches against. Would you also advise the alcoholic to stay away from church on the chance that Sister Jones may give a scathing talk on the WoW?

Plus there's that whole testimony thing to deal with. Some still feel a strong spiritual connection with the church and its gospel, in spite of their sexual orientation issues.

Its not as easy as you make it sound.

[Flystripper]

Originally Posted by FMCoug

The only reason the amendment is necessary is because of the agenda the gay movement has to MAKE everyone believe the way they do. If youy don't, you are branded a bigot.

You really believe that? Every gay person I have spoken to about this issue in CA (more then 20 less than 50) says they don't care if people think their marriage is immoral. They are not trying to make everyone believe that gay marriage is ordained from God. What they can't understand is why people, that they don't even know, would care about who they marry. It is mind boggling to them that people are concerned about who others are allowed to marry. Not one of them want to MAKE anyone believe anything. Any intelligent person knows you can't force somebody believe something. What they do want is is people to be tolerant of their decision to love and marry whom they choose.