You enlightened few who realize prophets and apostles are not infallible,

[CardiacCoug]

Originally Posted by creekster

observational = anecdotal?

No, not anecdotal but basically a survey -- asking people how often they drink and whether or not they have or subsequently develop coronary artery disease. It's not the best evidence because association does not equal causation. For example, I'm sure people in Utah who drink coffee develop lung cancer at a higher rate than people who don't drink coffee -- that's because they also are more likely to smoke. Drinking coffee in Utah is associated with developing lung cancer but it's not the cause. That's the problem with observational studies.

The strongest level of evidence would be to randomly assign 1000 people to drink moderately and 1000 people to not drink at all and then follow them for decades for the development of coronary artery disease. With alcohol, for obvious reasons, people don't want to enroll in a study like that.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Adam

The church's current demands related to the word of wisdom are policy and not doctrine. For instance DC 89:17 specificly endorses "mild drinks" made from barley and "other grain".

But DC 89:5 clearly rejects wine as "not good, neither meet in the sight of your father."

One wonders if the gospel had been resored in a warm coastal plain instead of the northern North American farming belt wine wouldn't have been approved and beer rejected. But it is what it is and doctrinally it should be easier to get a Mormon to down a Colt 45 than a glass of vintage Chablis Chardonnay. Bass Ackward admittedly.

And I know the history of post revelation imbibing in this dispensation by leaders of the Church. And that Christ drank--heck, he turned the water into wine at the wedding.

So why don't I drink?

1. I want to perform the ordainances for my children. I want to baptize them and confer upon my sons the priesthood. I want to be there when they marry in the temple. I want to serve in the church and help others come closer to Christ through the great good in the Church. And I think sneaking and hiding and lying about wine drinking would be corrosive to my soul--if I did it, I would do it openly.

2. I would hesitate before drinking because I have had three uncles who became alcoholics. It killed two of them young and violently, the third is dying now slowly in his 60s from the long term health effects. I fear there are genetics at work in me that could lead me to be susceptible to addiction. There is a whole life to be lost and only a bit of pleasure to be gained.

3. While I appreciate the history and geography and science of wine-making, I have never desired to drink. The urge just isn't in me. I have spent hundreds of hours at parties and at bars while in the army, while at Duke, and while working in NYC. I would often go out with my friends in those places. I have never felt envious of their drinking or wanted to join in. I have always had a great time and loved life and never needed the kick or stress release. I know many Mormons take perscription drugs to relax and destress and they might be better off with a glass of Cognac by the fire at night, but that isn't me.

So I remain a teetoler. Maybe I just don't know what I'm missing, but I'm ok with that for now.

Jesus was a wine aficionado. That's good enough for me. Here we see, by the way, the Greek hand in the NT's composition.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Solon

I've tried wine many times. I think it tastes terrible - and not just cheap wine. I've tasted what my colleagues assure me to be prime stuff.

This is like saying Mozart has too many notes or Dostoyevski is a slow read.

[SeattleUte]

Think about this. The roots of the Word of Wisdom lie in Martin Luther's revolt against the Renaissance.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Think about this. The roots of the Word of Wisdom lie in Martin Luther's revolt against the Renaissance.

no the roots are emma not wanting to clean up tobacco

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by CardiacCoug

I would say most cardiologists consider the observational data (obviously not randomized, prospective studies) supporting the benefits of moderate alcohol consumption in preventing coronary artery disease to be fairly convincing.

I agree with you that there is a ton of bias and multiple confounding factors associated with those studies, though. People who drink moderately, especially those that drink wine, are self-selected to be healthier and to have superior socioeconomic profiles that cannot be adequately adjusted for no matter how hard people try.

I was mostly just egging on SU with my post, although the idea that alcohol may protect against coronary artery disease doesn't bother me at all.

What do you think of the recent studies on the cardiovascular benefits of caffeine? I just read a summary in one of my throwaway journals but it was kind of interesting. If I recall correctly, 1-4 cups of coffee was found to increase survival, chiefly through the hypoglycemic effect leading to improved vascular health. I'll try to find a link.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

What do you think of the recent studies on the cardiovascular benefits of caffeine? I just read a summary in one of my throwaway journals but it was kind of interesting. If I recall correctly, 1-4 cups of coffee was found to increase survival, chiefly through the hypoglycemic effect leading to improved vascular health. I'll try to find a link.

Here's the link. Study was in AIM (respectable journal for you non-docs) and linked coffee with improved mortality. I was mistaken about the caffeine link--the link was actually independent of caffeine intake. All I've read is the abstract but you obviously have the same confounding factor issues that you find with all of these types of studies.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum