The Fall

[SeattleUte]

Utah has a natural recruiting base that is substantial and has been key to its success including attracting and retaining top coaches. It is: First, west coast and the rare mountain west players rejected by UCLA, Arizona and/or top 10 east coast programs that are nevertheless top 100 caliber (e.g., McGill, Newlin, Van Horn, Matheney, Manion, Doleac, Miller, Markson, Hawkins, Harvey, etc.); second, Utah non-Mormons or Mormons not wanting to contend with the honor code or other out of state players with a tie to Utah (e.g., Vranes, Chambers, Jackson, Burgess, etc.), and devout Mormons who are quality players (Do I have to list them? They are legion.).

For eons Utah has demonstrated the ability to go toe to toe with Oregon, Washington, Arizona State, and the like in pursuing the first group. Curtis Eatmon of this year's freshman class fits this description perfectly.

The second group is a smaller number but still important, and unless such players are truly spectacular and have the whole country pursuing them (e.g., Casey Jacobson) or embittered against the whole state (e.g., the Pollards), Utah is the first option for them.

Finally, Utah gets probably 40% of the quality devout LDS kids it wants. Forty go to BYU, and 20% go to big programs. There was a spell in the mid-nineties when BYU got none of them and we see the result--1-26.

If BYU can't recruit the third group successfully we see the result: apocalypse, as in Reid's and Cleveland's last years. This last group is not indispensable for Utah but it has gone toe to toe with BYU for these players, again, probably splitting with BYU the devout Mormon kids who don't go to really big programs. Foster is an example on the current Ute team. He will wind up a quality big man for some program if not Utah, especially if he Plaisteads out of his mission.

Honest question: Has Rose recruited any good players? I thought it ironic that Cleveland hit the jackpot with Plaistead et al. and then quit. If you review some of my old posts on CB you'll see I foresaw what is happening. Given how highly recruited these BYU stars were if anything this BYU team is underachieving. But as we've seen, that class was an aberration. That class will be hard to duplicate, especially since they all weasled out of missions. Normally BYU damages their stars by putting them into the mission program. Is apocalypse on the horizon after Plaistead et al. are gone?

[Archaea]

Has Rose recruited any good players?

Tavernari seems like a good player. Jimmer Fredette will be a good player.

[cougjunkie]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Utah has a natural recruiting base that is substantial and has been key to its success including attracting and retaining top coaches. It is: First, west coast and the rare mountain west players rejected by UCLA, Arizona and/or top 10 east coast programs that are nevertheless top 100 caliber (e.g., McGill, Newlin, Van Horn, Matheney, Manion, Doleac, Miller, Markson, Hawkins, Harvey, etc.); second, Utah non-Mormons or Mormons not wanting to contend with the honor code or other out of state players with a tie to Utah (e.g., Vranes, Chambers, Jackson, Burgess, etc.), and devout Mormons who are quality players (Do I have to list them? They are legion.).

For eons Utah has demonstrated the ability to go toe to toe with Oregon, Washington, Arizona State, and the like in pursuing the first group. Curtis Eatmon of this year's freshman class fits this description perfectly.

The second group is a smaller number but still important, and unless such players are truly spectacular and have the whole country pursuing them (e.g., Casey Jacobson) or embittered against the whole state (e.g., the Pollards), Utah is the first option for them.

Finally, Utah gets probably 40% of the quality devout LDS kids it wants. Forty go to BYU, and 20% go to big programs. There was a spell in the mid-nineties when BYU got none of them and we see the result--1-26.

If BYU can't recruit the third group successfully we see the result: apocalypse, as in Reid's and Cleveland's last years. This last group is not indispensable for Utah but it has gone toe to toe with BYU for these players, again, probably splitting with BYU the devout Mormon kids who don't go to really big programs. Foster is an example on the current Ute team. He will wind up a quality big man for some program if not Utah, especially if he Plaisteads out of his mission.

Honest question: Has Rose recruited any good players? I thought it ironic that Cleveland hit the jackpot with Plaistead et al. and then quit. If you review some of my old posts on CB you'll see I foresaw what is happening. Given how highly recruited these BYU stars were if anything this BYU team is underachieving. But as we've seen, that class was an aberration. That class will be hard to duplicate, especially since they all weasled out of missions. Normally BYU damages their stars by putting them into the mission program. Is apocalypse on the horizon after Plaistead et al. are gone?

Rose has really only had 1 recruiting class, If no one else pans out it still yielded Tavernari who absolutely torched you guys yesterday, that alone makes this class a success.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by cougjunkie

Rose has really only had 1 recruiting class, If no one else pans out it still yielded Tavernari who absolutely torched you guys yesterday, that alone makes this class a success.

No. One isn't enough. You need more than one good player per recruiting class. That's part of what's happening to Giacoletti now.

[SeattleUte]

Also, the odd foreigner does not a recruiting base make. You didn't see me claim Croatia or Australia as a recruiting base.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by jay santos

We took over your recruiting base.

Unless you can find a coach to recruit nationally, you're out of luck. But you have no edge on any other MWC or WAC team.

Utah got the best player in the state and unlv got the second best player (Darger). Plus grimm is the best player this year and he is going to the U....

How did you take over our recruiting base?

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Utah has a natural recruiting base that is substantial and has been key to its success including attracting and retaining top coaches. It is: First, west coast and the rare mountain west players rejected by UCLA, Arizona and/or top 10 east coast programs that are nevertheless top 100 caliber (e.g., McGill, Newlin, Van Horn, Matheney, Manion, Doleac, Miller, Markson, Hawkins, Harvey, etc.); second, Utah non-Mormons or Mormons not wanting to contend with the honor code or other out of state players with a tie to Utah (e.g., Vranes, Chambers, Jackson, Burgess, etc.), and devout Mormons who are quality players (Do I have to list them? They are legion.).

For eons Utah has demonstrated the ability to go toe to toe with Oregon, Washington, Arizona State, and the like in pursuing the first group. Curtis Eatmon of this year's freshman class fits this description perfectly.

The second group is a smaller number but still important, and unless such players are truly spectacular and have the whole country pursuing them (e.g., Casey Jacobson) or embittered against the whole state (e.g., the Pollards), Utah is the first option for them.

Finally, Utah gets probably 40% of the quality devout LDS kids it wants. Forty go to BYU, and 20% go to big programs. There was a spell in the mid-nineties when BYU got none of them and we see the result--1-26.

If BYU can't recruit the third group successfully we see the result: apocalypse, as in Reid's and Cleveland's last years. This last group is not indispensable for Utah but it has gone toe to toe with BYU for these players, again, probably splitting with BYU the devout Mormon kids who don't go to really big programs. Foster is an example on the current Ute team. He will wind up a quality big man for some program if not Utah, especially if he Plaisteads out of his mission.

Honest question: Has Rose recruited any good players? I thought it ironic that Cleveland hit the jackpot with Plaistead et al. and then quit. If you review some of my old posts on CB you'll see I foresaw what is happening. Given how highly recruited these BYU stars were if anything this BYU team is underachieving. But as we've seen, that class was an aberration. That class will be hard to duplicate, especially since they all weasled out of missions. Normally BYU damages their stars by putting them into the mission program. Is apocalypse on the horizon after Plaistead et al. are gone?

Yes, apocalypse is on the horizon. We're scared to death.

With young players like Plaisted, Cummard, Tavernari, Cameron, Fredette, Collinsworth, Otero, Miles filling the coffers for the next five years the future looks bleak. Since nearly all of those come from our natural recruiting base, there is no reason to think things will dry up after them.

By the way, Tavernari is a frosh contributing on a good team, not like your young guys who are buried on the bench of an awful team.

I haven't been concerned about any recruit you pulled out of the state of Utah in over five years. You're putting all your eggs in the California basket just like every other mid tier team. Good luck with that.

You're UTEP, UNM, Wyoming, Nevada. Any of those teams can hit it big for a few years with a great coaching hire. Your run lasted longer because your coach stayed--but deep down you know that's not going to be typical.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

Utah got the best player in the state and unlv got the second best player (Darger). Plus grimm is the best player this year and he is going to the U....

How did you take over our recruiting base?

Dawes, Jensen, Pinegar, Meads, Miles, Emery, Collinsworth

Maybe they didn't all pan out, but they were all highly recruited. Who have you recruited out of Utah the last five years? BYU has its pick of 75% of the best players in Utah. There is a portion they don't have a shot at, but this isn't 1960 anymore. We own Utah recruiting.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Dawes, Jensen, Pinegar, Meads, Miles, Emery, Collinsworth

Maybe they didn't all pan out, but they were all highly recruited. Who have you recruited out of Utah the last five years? BYU has its pick of 75% of the best players in Utah. There is a portion they don't have a shot at, but this isn't 1960 anymore. We own Utah recruiting.

Dawes jensen Pinegar and Mead were 5 years ago... BTW Meads is the only one who was ok... Miles 3 years ago...not much

Emery and collingsworth to soon to tell...


Compare that with who Utah has gotten. I wouldn't say you own us...in fact I wouldn't even say that your recruits are better right now....

Green - best player 2 years ago in state
Deane - Best player last year in State
Grimm - Best player this year in state


Seems like Utah is doing ok...

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Yes, apocalypse is on the horizon. We're scared to death.

With young players like Plaisted, Cummard, Tavernari, Cameron, Fredette, Collinsworth, Otero, Miles filling the coffers for the next five years the future looks bleak. Since nearly all of those come from our natural recruiting base, there is no reason to think things will dry up after them.

By the way, Tavernari is a frosh contributing on a good team, not like your young guys who are buried on the bench of an awful team.

I haven't been concerned about any recruit you pulled out of the state of Utah in over five years. You're putting all your eggs in the California basket just like every other mid tier team. Good luck with that.

You're UTEP, UNM, Wyoming, Nevada. Any of those teams can hit it big for a few years with a great coaching hire. Your run lasted longer because your coach stayed--but deep down you know that's not going to be typical.

That's pretty big talk from a fan of a team that hasn't won an NCAA game in twenty years, and won less than ten games the year before last. Whether BYU even goes to the NCAA playoffs this year is an open question. What's funny about your talk is how differently we measure success. Those studs Cleveland recruited in his last year are not Spring chickens anymore. With that class BYU should be a top 20 team. It's a middling MWC team. But it won't have another chance like this to win an NCAA game for a long time. Even with Giacoletti and Archibald Utah won the conference and experienced NCAA success. Your perspective is warped because you think history began when you became conscious of the world around you. Which is typical. You also have this insular sense of divine mission. What say you? Will BYU win an NCAA game this year? Will it even get a bid? From a seventy year perspective of Utah basketball this BYU team would be regarded as a failure.

i've never heard of thes "youth" you listed except Plaistead and Cummard. Nobody wanted them.