After the Dodgers fired DePodesta - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

mpfunk · 10-31-2005, 08:45 PM

I hope they lose every game next year. Last year the Dodgers were my favorite team in the NL, now they are the team I hate the most in the NL. I think a post from the A's blog sums up my thoughts on this situation perfectly.

"When I heard this story on the car radio, I couldn't believe it. Frank McCourt has the tiniest set known to man. Kowtowing to the "mighty" and very clueless LA media like Bill Plaschke (could this guy be more of a caricature?), McCourt fired DePodesta when all DePo did was win a playoff game for the first time since the 49ers were relevant. His team was also destroyed by injuries this past season, including Gagne, Bradley and many on his pitching staff. DePo's downfall began the moment he traded LoDuca and the media tore DePo a new one. Grow a pair, McCourt. The Dodgers are no longer a team I root for. Disgusting. I hope the Dodgers lose 100 games this year. I only hope is that LA's loss is our gain. I would hope DePo could come back if some other owner isn't smart enough to scoop up one of the most brilliant minds in baseball."

http://www.athleticsnation.com/story...0/29/161116/99

bluegoose · 10-31-2005, 09:11 PM

I also agree that he is a victim of circumstance. Pretty sad really.

Speaking of GMs getting the shaft, can you believe that the Red Sox even considered not re-signing Theo Epstein? Say what you want about the organization, but he has made some pretty brilliant moves since he joined the team. And oh yeah, did you hear that they won the world series.

And to think that he makes a measly $750K per year (tic statement, to a degree). I think baseball GMs are way underpaid when you consider the outrageous pay scales they deal with everyday. For putting together a top notch contender that is bringing the city and the owner a huge amount of $$, you would think they could spare a bit more for him.

mpfunk · 10-31-2005, 09:19 PM

I hate the Red Sox, but I cannot deny that Theo Epstein is a fantastic GM. It is ridiculous that they would even consider not bringing him back. He has done a great job with that franchise and no one can question his ability.

As an A's fan I really know the value of a great GM. I also know the value of management who trusts him and does not make snap judgments. If I had my choice of a 60 million payroll and Billy Beane or a 80 million payroll and no Billy Beane. Give me the 60 million payroll and Beane.

bluegoose · 10-31-2005, 09:26 PM

Billy Beane is a phenomenal GM. I cannot figure out how he continues to come up with these phenomenal pitching staffs. If Dotel is healthy last year, they ride their pitching all the way to the playoffs.

Funk, as an A's fan, what is your take on the manager situation? His name escapes me right now, but first he's there, then he's gone, now he's back. Whats the scoop? Is he the best they could find? If they wanted someone else, shouldn't they have taken more than 36 hours to look around?

mpfunk · 10-31-2005, 09:41 PM

Well here is my opinion on the Ken Macha situation. First off you have to realize that Billy Beane does not put a lot of stock in the manager. He thinks that the main thing with a manager is managing the pitching staff and maybe a few people skills. What happened with Macha is that Beane knew what he was willing to pay a manager. He offered it to Macha and his agent came back with a counter-offer. Well Beane was not interested in playing games, he gave his best offer it was not a negotiable offer. He pulled it and Macha tried to find another job which he couldn't Macha came back to Beane took the original offer.

The reason that Beane did not continue the search for other candidates is it just did not really matter to him. He is comfortable with Macha and really thinks that he does the job he needs done. He would have promoted within anyway so IMO he figured the players liked Macha just bring him back.

Now personally I was glad when Macha was gone. I think he does not do a good job managing his bullpen. Other than that he is adequate. The manager in baseball is just not a big deal to me. I would have preferred to move on but like most A's fans I simply trust Beane. He thought it was best to bring him back so I will live with it.

mpfunk · 10-31-2005, 10:38 PM

Well looks like Epstein is out afterall.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slu...v=ap&type=lgns

Parrot Head · 10-31-2005, 11:34 PM

Theo leaving is quite the surprise. Wasn't that his boyhood team or something? With Cashman getting the extension, the only other place to go is LA. I guess DC is an option come April, but who wants to take over a team after the winter meetings and all? To beat out $1.5M, McCourt's gotta have something up his sleeve. He's got to, though, because if the Dodgers keep sucking it up while the Angels are bringing in awesome guys, they'll have some competition.

Also, I thought his recent salary was only in the $300-400K range. I guess he's jealous of Cashman getting $2.2M, but that guy's really proven himself. No way Theo deserves Cashman or Schuerholz money. Yes, he got the ring and deserves a fine raise for that, but you've got to draw the line somewhere.

bluegoose · 10-31-2005, 11:41 PM

Boy, tough crowd.

What more do you want from the guy. He wins the WS, has essentially no holes in the batting line-up from 1-9, lands the hottest free agents each year (Schilling, Clemente).

He's an All-star and, in baseball dollars, worth more than the $1.2 mil they were offering. You're right, maybe not Cashman money, but pretty close, IMO.

Parrot Head · 11-01-2005, 01:51 AM

Tough crowd? I'm just saying three seasons does not earn you the same money as 10 or 14 seasons. Close, yes, but still #3.

As far as filling the holes, with $130M, I think I could do a fair job at that, too. Of course, you also see how many playoff wins it got them this year. :wink:

One other Dodger-related thought (I may have now reached my max for the off-season): I did not like Gagne calling out McCourt to open the wallet more a few weeks ago and saying, "You need to re-sign Jeff Weaver, the innings he gives us are priceless." If they're priceless, he can't be re-signed. Let the owner and the GM make those decisions, not some injured reliever with funky goggles. I thought that was a cheap way to go about that as the season ended. I don't see him and Darren Dreifort offering to give back any of the combined $21M they made after only appearing in a total of 14 games.

Oh, and that's American dollars, not Canadian, Mr. Gagne.

Parrot Head · 11-01-2005, 05:55 PM

I've been reading up on the Theo saga and it's pretty interesting; they've got quite a soap opera going on up in Boston now. There's a lot of angles on this and some big implications, especially since the Sawx have some big free agents entering the market. Here's a compliation email I get that covers several points and will get you all caught up if you care... (Credit to SportsBusinessDaily.com)

WHAT “SOURED” THEO? In Boston, Michael Silverman notes Epstein declined the Red Sox’ offer for a three-year contract extension worth $1.5M annually. Sources said that a “key factor that ultimately soured Epstein” was a Sunday column by the Boston Globe’s Dan Shaughnessy, “which revealed too much inside information about the relationship between Epstein and his mentor, [Red Sox President & CEO] Larry Lucchino, and slanted the coverage” in Lucchino’s favor. Epstein believed that Lucchino was “a primary source behind the column and came to the realization that if this information was leaked hours before he was going to agree to a long-term deal, excessive bad faith existed between the two.” Despite a report in Monday’s Globe that Epstein had agreed to the contract extension, Silverman wrote he “had not made up his mind about accepting the job before going to bed Sunday night” (BOSTON HERALD, 11/1).

CONFLICTED INTEREST? Much of today’s debate around Epstein’s departure centers around the New York Times’ ownership of the Boston Globe and its 17% stake in New England Sports Ventures, which owns the Red Sox, Fenway Park and 80% of NESN. In Boston, Scott Van Voorhis writes media experts believe that the Globe’s reporting “raises serious questions about the role these ownership ties may have played in the paper’s reporting” on the Epstein-Lucchino issue. Media Access Project CEO Andrew Schwartzman: “It is an inherent conflict of interest. There is a tension between the demands to generate business synergy and the increasing pressure that media companies have to maintain public trust.” Timothy Karr of the media watchdog group Free Press added, “This is the problem with conglomerated media. When the ownership of media companies have separate interests ... there is a tendency to compromise the reporting” (BOSTON HERALD, 11/1).

TRAGIC HERO: In Boston, Gerry Callahan: “No one is ever going to think of Theo as the bad guy. He looks, if nothing else, like a man of principle, a guy who didn’t like the way his bosses were going behind his back and spoon-feeding stories to their favorite newspaper. ... Theo believes Lucchino and Charles Steinberg violated the agreement [to keep his contract negotiation private]. They did their best to make him look like he was just trying to cash in, and he did the opposite” (BOSTON HERALD, 11/1).

MORE FALLOUT: The BOSTON GLOBE’s Snow reports Red Sox Special Assistant to the GM Bill Lajoie “resigned within minutes of Epstein doing so” and it is “possible that other baseball operations employees will also exit, especially given that” Byrnes left to become D’Backs GM and will start to assemble a staff. Red Sox Senior Baseball Operations Adviser Bill James intends to stay (BOSTON GLOBE, 11/1). ESPN’s Gammons: “There’s a very good possibility with Theo leaving that most of the front office will depart and go to Arizona as well” (“SportsCenter,” ESPN, 10/31).

PLAYER RELATIONS: Red Sox P Curt Schilling said Epstein “wanted more control of a team that had his name on it, and they wouldn’t give it to him. I couldn’t believe they wouldn’t give the [GM] what he needs to put this team together. This is going to have a dramatic effect on our team” (BOSTON HERALD, 11/1). Free agent 1B Kevin Millar: “It’s a huge loss for the Red Sox.” Free agent CF Johnny Damon: “Who’s going to be calling the shots? Can we put a GM in place right away? Maybe it’s going to be Lucchino who tries to iron out the free agency and tries to figure out what team we’re going to go with” (MLB.com, 10/31).

10-31-2005, 08:45 PM	#1
mpfunk Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,619	After the Dodgers fired DePodesta I hope they lose every game next year. Last year the Dodgers were my favorite team in the NL, now they are the team I hate the most in the NL. I think a post from the A's blog sums up my thoughts on this situation perfectly. "When I heard this story on the car radio, I couldn't believe it. Frank McCourt has the tiniest set known to man. Kowtowing to the "mighty" and very clueless LA media like Bill Plaschke (could this guy be more of a caricature?), McCourt fired DePodesta when all DePo did was win a playoff game for the first time since the 49ers were relevant. His team was also destroyed by injuries this past season, including Gagne, Bradley and many on his pitching staff. DePo's downfall began the moment he traded LoDuca and the media tore DePo a new one. Grow a pair, McCourt. The Dodgers are no longer a team I root for. Disgusting. I hope the Dodgers lose 100 games this year. I only hope is that LA's loss is our gain. I would hope DePo could come back if some other owner isn't smart enough to scoop up one of the most brilliant minds in baseball." http://www.athleticsnation.com/story...0/29/161116/99

10-31-2005, 09:11 PM	#2
bluegoose Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Northern California Posts: 2,919	I also agree that he is a victim of circumstance. Pretty sad really. Speaking of GMs getting the shaft, can you believe that the Red Sox even considered not re-signing Theo Epstein? Say what you want about the organization, but he has made some pretty brilliant moves since he joined the team. And oh yeah, did you hear that they won the world series. And to think that he makes a measly $750K per year (tic statement, to a degree). I think baseball GMs are way underpaid when you consider the outrageous pay scales they deal with everyday. For putting together a top notch contender that is bringing the city and the owner a huge amount of $$, you would think they could spare a bit more for him.

10-31-2005, 09:19 PM	#3
mpfunk Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,619	I hate the Red Sox, but I cannot deny that Theo Epstein is a fantastic GM. It is ridiculous that they would even consider not bringing him back. He has done a great job with that franchise and no one can question his ability. As an A's fan I really know the value of a great GM. I also know the value of management who trusts him and does not make snap judgments. If I had my choice of a 60 million payroll and Billy Beane or a 80 million payroll and no Billy Beane. Give me the 60 million payroll and Beane.

10-31-2005, 09:26 PM	#4
bluegoose Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Northern California Posts: 2,919	Billy Beane is a phenomenal GM. I cannot figure out how he continues to come up with these phenomenal pitching staffs. If Dotel is healthy last year, they ride their pitching all the way to the playoffs. Funk, as an A's fan, what is your take on the manager situation? His name escapes me right now, but first he's there, then he's gone, now he's back. Whats the scoop? Is he the best they could find? If they wanted someone else, shouldn't they have taken more than 36 hours to look around?

10-31-2005, 09:41 PM	#5
mpfunk Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,619	Well here is my opinion on the Ken Macha situation. First off you have to realize that Billy Beane does not put a lot of stock in the manager. He thinks that the main thing with a manager is managing the pitching staff and maybe a few people skills. What happened with Macha is that Beane knew what he was willing to pay a manager. He offered it to Macha and his agent came back with a counter-offer. Well Beane was not interested in playing games, he gave his best offer it was not a negotiable offer. He pulled it and Macha tried to find another job which he couldn't Macha came back to Beane took the original offer. The reason that Beane did not continue the search for other candidates is it just did not really matter to him. He is comfortable with Macha and really thinks that he does the job he needs done. He would have promoted within anyway so IMO he figured the players liked Macha just bring him back. Now personally I was glad when Macha was gone. I think he does not do a good job managing his bullpen. Other than that he is adequate. The manager in baseball is just not a big deal to me. I would have preferred to move on but like most A's fans I simply trust Beane. He thought it was best to bring him back so I will live with it.

10-31-2005, 10:38 PM	#6
mpfunk Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,619	Well looks like Epstein is out afterall. http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slu...v=ap&type=lgns

10-31-2005, 11:34 PM	#7
Parrot Head Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 763	Theo leaving is quite the surprise. Wasn't that his boyhood team or something? With Cashman getting the extension, the only other place to go is LA. I guess DC is an option come April, but who wants to take over a team after the winter meetings and all? To beat out $1.5M, McCourt's gotta have something up his sleeve. He's got to, though, because if the Dodgers keep sucking it up while the Angels are bringing in awesome guys, they'll have some competition. Also, I thought his recent salary was only in the $300-400K range. I guess he's jealous of Cashman getting $2.2M, but that guy's really proven himself. No way Theo deserves Cashman or Schuerholz money. Yes, he got the ring and deserves a fine raise for that, but you've got to draw the line somewhere.

10-31-2005, 11:41 PM	#8
bluegoose Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Northern California Posts: 2,919	Boy, tough crowd. What more do you want from the guy. He wins the WS, has essentially no holes in the batting line-up from 1-9, lands the hottest free agents each year (Schilling, Clemente). He's an All-star and, in baseball dollars, worth more than the $1.2 mil they were offering. You're right, maybe not Cashman money, but pretty close, IMO.

11-01-2005, 01:51 AM	#9
Parrot Head Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 763	Tough crowd? I'm just saying three seasons does not earn you the same money as 10 or 14 seasons. Close, yes, but still #3. As far as filling the holes, with $130M, I think I could do a fair job at that, too. Of course, you also see how many playoff wins it got them this year. :wink: One other Dodger-related thought (I may have now reached my max for the off-season): I did not like Gagne calling out McCourt to open the wallet more a few weeks ago and saying, "You need to re-sign Jeff Weaver, the innings he gives us are priceless." If they're priceless, he can't be re-signed. Let the owner and the GM make those decisions, not some injured reliever with funky goggles. I thought that was a cheap way to go about that as the season ended. I don't see him and Darren Dreifort offering to give back any of the combined $21M they made after only appearing in a total of 14 games. Oh, and that's American dollars, not Canadian, Mr. Gagne.

11-01-2005, 05:55 PM	#10
Parrot Head Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 763	I've been reading up on the Theo saga and it's pretty interesting; they've got quite a soap opera going on up in Boston now. There's a lot of angles on this and some big implications, especially since the Sawx have some big free agents entering the market. Here's a compliation email I get that covers several points and will get you all caught up if you care... (Credit to SportsBusinessDaily.com) WHAT “SOURED” THEO? In Boston, Michael Silverman notes Epstein declined the Red Sox’ offer for a three-year contract extension worth $1.5M annually. Sources said that a “key factor that ultimately soured Epstein” was a Sunday column by the Boston Globe’s Dan Shaughnessy, “which revealed too much inside information about the relationship between Epstein and his mentor, [Red Sox President & CEO] Larry Lucchino, and slanted the coverage” in Lucchino’s favor. Epstein believed that Lucchino was “a primary source behind the column and came to the realization that if this information was leaked hours before he was going to agree to a long-term deal, excessive bad faith existed between the two.” Despite a report in Monday’s Globe that Epstein had agreed to the contract extension, Silverman wrote he “had not made up his mind about accepting the job before going to bed Sunday night” (BOSTON HERALD, 11/1). CONFLICTED INTEREST? Much of today’s debate around Epstein’s departure centers around the New York Times’ ownership of the Boston Globe and its 17% stake in New England Sports Ventures, which owns the Red Sox, Fenway Park and 80% of NESN. In Boston, Scott Van Voorhis writes media experts believe that the Globe’s reporting “raises serious questions about the role these ownership ties may have played in the paper’s reporting” on the Epstein-Lucchino issue. Media Access Project CEO Andrew Schwartzman: “It is an inherent conflict of interest. There is a tension between the demands to generate business synergy and the increasing pressure that media companies have to maintain public trust.” Timothy Karr of the media watchdog group Free Press added, “This is the problem with conglomerated media. When the ownership of media companies have separate interests ... there is a tendency to compromise the reporting” (BOSTON HERALD, 11/1). TRAGIC HERO: In Boston, Gerry Callahan: “No one is ever going to think of Theo as the bad guy. He looks, if nothing else, like a man of principle, a guy who didn’t like the way his bosses were going behind his back and spoon-feeding stories to their favorite newspaper. ... Theo believes Lucchino and Charles Steinberg violated the agreement [to keep his contract negotiation private]. They did their best to make him look like he was just trying to cash in, and he did the opposite” (BOSTON HERALD, 11/1). MORE FALLOUT: The BOSTON GLOBE’s Snow reports Red Sox Special Assistant to the GM Bill Lajoie “resigned within minutes of Epstein doing so” and it is “possible that other baseball operations employees will also exit, especially given that” Byrnes left to become D’Backs GM and will start to assemble a staff. Red Sox Senior Baseball Operations Adviser Bill James intends to stay (BOSTON GLOBE, 11/1). ESPN’s Gammons: “There’s a very good possibility with Theo leaving that most of the front office will depart and go to Arizona as well” (“SportsCenter,” ESPN, 10/31). PLAYER RELATIONS: Red Sox P Curt Schilling said Epstein “wanted more control of a team that had his name on it, and they wouldn’t give it to him. I couldn’t believe they wouldn’t give the [GM] what he needs to put this team together. This is going to have a dramatic effect on our team” (BOSTON HERALD, 11/1). Free agent 1B Kevin Millar: “It’s a huge loss for the Red Sox.” Free agent CF Johnny Damon: “Who’s going to be calling the shots? Can we put a GM in place right away? Maybe it’s going to be Lucchino who tries to iron out the free agency and tries to figure out what team we’re going to go with” (MLB.com, 10/31).