question about scouting - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

MikeWaters · 04-12-2006, 02:12 AM

so in our ward, scouts meet twice a month. the other weeks is duty to God.

So I am called as scoutmaster AND 2nd counselor in the YM. So I think he is expecting me to attend every Wed night, including the Duty to God nights.

I guess my problem is this is a sort of dilution of my role. In other words, I am the boss in uniform some nights (scoutmaster), but other nights I am the 2nd fiddle schmuck in street clothes.

I don't know if I like that.

What do you guys think?

Colly Wolly · 04-12-2006, 02:30 AM

You want to be boss or second fiddle? I am the Varsity Coach in my ward and I have been sick of it for about 6 months now. So, in your situation, I would be glad to get out of as much responsibility as possible.

MikeWaters · 04-12-2006, 02:54 AM

I don't want to be boss all the time.

I'm wondering if it would be better for me to not be present on Duty to God nights.

il Padrino Ute · 04-12-2006, 03:09 AM

Because each group of YM (priests, teachers and deacons) have separate criteria in each level of the priesthood to complete the Duty to God, as 2nd counselor you could work exclusively with the deacons on each Wed that you're doing Duty to God. This is how we do it in my ward and it's been rather successful.

The scouting nights, it's your show; however if you could convince the others in the YM presidencey to be there, you could also break into the same individual groups to work on the scouting requirements for advancement. The scoutmaster in my stake (we have so few numbers that the entire stake has been condensed into on troop) has asked various dads of the scouts to help out and it's worked out well. I've helped out a few times because my son is starting to be involved in scouting and have enjoyed it. Perhaps you could ask the same of the scouts' dads. Most are willing to help out if asked.

SteelBlue · 04-12-2006, 03:45 AM

In reality it shouldn't dilute your role at all, because you'll have the same role when it comes to Duty to God. The second counselor will take the lead with the Deacons in that program. I think this will actually help you as there is a decent crossover between the 2 programs. A lot of the things in Duty to God can help meet scouting requirements.

I also have to give a thumbs up to your ward for placing such a high degree of importance on the Duty to God award. I think it's an excellent program and it hasn't caught on like I think it needs to. When the program was introduced, the First Presidency made it clear that it was VERY important to them. I think both Scouting and Duty to God provide lots of great opportunities for our Young Men to become better and more educated people. One thing that I really like about Duty to God is that it hasn't become tainted by the LDS scouting culture yet (i.e. Eagle or no license). You will have a tremendous influence on both temporal and spiritual growth in these 12 and 13 year old young men. I think it's something you'll look back on with a lot of pride and satisfaction.

Jeff Lebowski · 04-12-2006, 03:52 AM

Mike,

As for the "second fiddle" stuff, I wouldn't worry about it.

But I will tell you this: I think you can either do the scouting program well, or the Duty to God program well, but not both. I have shared experiences and discussed this with many other leaders and they all say the same thing. Perhaps if you have a small number of boys and you are very dedicated, you could pull it off. Or if you have one leader in charge of scouts and another in charge of Duty to God, you may have a chance. But it is tough the get the boys, the parents, and the leaders all working hard and in synch on both programs. I really believe the church should pick one or the other and stop trying to do both.

Good luck.

Jeff Lebowski · 04-12-2006, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelBlue

When the program was introduced, the First Presidency made it clear that it was VERY important to them.

The rumor I heard (take it for what it is worth), is that Pres. Hinckley and Pres. Monson were not sold on the idea at first. After a while they wore down Pres. Hinckley but Pres. Monson never seemed too enthused about it and reluctantly gave in. Monson is a big fan of scouting and I suspect he was worried about exactly what has happened. You can either do BSA well or Duty to God well, but it is very difficult to do both. Ultimately, I expect BSA to be the casualty. And I am OK with that. I just think they should pick one.

SteelBlue · 04-12-2006, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homeboy

You can either do BSA well or Duty to God well, but it is very difficult to do both. Ultimately, I expect BSA to be the casualty. And I am OK with that. I just think they should pick one.

I personally don't see why the 2 are difficult to combine. I think they work quite well together. Many if not most of the Duty to God requirements have a possible scouting tie in. I guess I'm just not sure why it matters too much if you give half the month to one and half to the other.

If they ever did choose one or the other I personally hope they'd go with Duty to God. In all honesty, I think our culture has cheapened the Eagle Scout award. When done properly, the Eagle is a very impressive accomplishment. When fast tracked and forced with lame 17th year half assed service projects, I cease to be impressed. I still don't see the need to choose one or the other as they dovetail pretty well in my opinion.

MikeWaters · 04-12-2006, 04:20 AM

we only have one deacon. and he isn't even officially a member of our ward (he lives 30 miles from our boundaries--long story).

So deacons don't exist for the most part. He has been incorporated in with the teachers.

Mormon Red Death · 04-12-2006, 12:13 PM

Ok Mike I have to say something. I think Duty to god is the biggest albatross a YM organization has.

1. It requires more paperwork (half/all the time the kids dont bring their books)

2. The parents dont really care if their kid gets this award (if it is an award).

3. If your goal is to have all your boys get their eagles you have to spend now 2 weeks a month doing DTG. so you are either doing scouts or DTG and you never get to have fun. I am in the Monson camp on this one.

In your case dont go on the DTG nights if you dont have any kids. Focus on being the best darn scoutmaster their is.

04-12-2006, 02:12 AM	#1
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	question about scouting so in our ward, scouts meet twice a month. the other weeks is duty to God. So I am called as scoutmaster AND 2nd counselor in the YM. So I think he is expecting me to attend every Wed night, including the Duty to God nights. I guess my problem is this is a sort of dilution of my role. In other words, I am the boss in uniform some nights (scoutmaster), but other nights I am the 2nd fiddle schmuck in street clothes. I don't know if I like that. What do you guys think?

04-12-2006, 03:09 AM	#4
il Padrino Ute Board Pinhead Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the basement of my house, Murray, Utah. Posts: 15,941	Because each group of YM (priests, teachers and deacons) have separate criteria in each level of the priesthood to complete the Duty to God, as 2nd counselor you could work exclusively with the deacons on each Wed that you're doing Duty to God. This is how we do it in my ward and it's been rather successful. The scouting nights, it's your show; however if you could convince the others in the YM presidencey to be there, you could also break into the same individual groups to work on the scouting requirements for advancement. The scoutmaster in my stake (we have so few numbers that the entire stake has been condensed into on troop) has asked various dads of the scouts to help out and it's worked out well. I've helped out a few times because my son is starting to be involved in scouting and have enjoyed it. Perhaps you could ask the same of the scouts' dads. Most are willing to help out if asked. __________________ "The beauty of baseball is not having to explain it." - Chuck Shriver "This is now the joke that stupid people laugh at." - Christopher Hitchens on IQ jokes about GWB.

04-12-2006, 03:52 AM	#6
Jeff Lebowski Charon Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the heart of darkness (Provo) Posts: 9,564	Mike, As for the "second fiddle" stuff, I wouldn't worry about it. But I will tell you this: I think you can either do the scouting program well, or the Duty to God program well, but not both. I have shared experiences and discussed this with many other leaders and they all say the same thing. Perhaps if you have a small number of boys and you are very dedicated, you could pull it off. Or if you have one leader in charge of scouts and another in charge of Duty to God, you may have a chance. But it is tough the get the boys, the parents, and the leaders all working hard and in synch on both programs. I really believe the church should pick one or the other and stop trying to do both. Good luck. __________________ "... the arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice." Martin Luther King, Jr.

04-12-2006, 12:13 PM	#10
Mormon Red Death Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Clinton Township, MI Posts: 3,126	Ok Mike I have to say something. I think Duty to god is the biggest albatross a YM organization has. 1. It requires more paperwork (half/all the time the kids dont bring their books) 2. The parents dont really care if their kid gets this award (if it is an award). 3. If your goal is to have all your boys get their eagles you have to spend now 2 weeks a month doing DTG. so you are either doing scouts or DTG and you never get to have fun. I am in the Monson camp on this one. In your case dont go on the DTG nights if you dont have any kids. Focus on being the best darn scoutmaster their is. __________________ Its all about the suit

04-12-2006, 02:30 AM	#2
Colly Wolly Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,281	You want to be boss or second fiddle? I am the Varsity Coach in my ward and I have been sick of it for about 6 months now. So, in your situation, I would be glad to get out of as much responsibility as possible.

04-12-2006, 02:54 AM	#3
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I don't want to be boss all the time. I'm wondering if it would be better for me to not be present on Duty to God nights.

04-12-2006, 03:45 AM	#5
SteelBlue Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Norcal Posts: 5,821	In reality it shouldn't dilute your role at all, because you'll have the same role when it comes to Duty to God. The second counselor will take the lead with the Deacons in that program. I think this will actually help you as there is a decent crossover between the 2 programs. A lot of the things in Duty to God can help meet scouting requirements. I also have to give a thumbs up to your ward for placing such a high degree of importance on the Duty to God award. I think it's an excellent program and it hasn't caught on like I think it needs to. When the program was introduced, the First Presidency made it clear that it was VERY important to them. I think both Scouting and Duty to God provide lots of great opportunities for our Young Men to become better and more educated people. One thing that I really like about Duty to God is that it hasn't become tainted by the LDS scouting culture yet (i.e. Eagle or no license). You will have a tremendous influence on both temporal and spiritual growth in these 12 and 13 year old young men. I think it's something you'll look back on with a lot of pride and satisfaction.

04-12-2006, 04:20 AM	#9
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	we only have one deacon. and he isn't even officially a member of our ward (he lives 30 miles from our boundaries--long story). So deacons don't exist for the most part. He has been incorporated in with the teachers.