No temptation given you...

[MikeWaters]

Is it reasonable to expect gays to 1) never have gay sex, and 2) never once masturbate.

Does that fit with the idea that God doesn't give us temptation beyond what we can handle?

Any thoughts?

[Indy Coug]

Why is it any less hard to refrain from masturbation whether straight or gay? How literal are you to take the "no temptation" statement? If you take it as literally as possible, there would have been no need for an Atonement.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Why is it any less hard to refrain from masturbation whether straight or gay? How literal are you to take the "no temptation" statement? If you take it as literally as possible, there would have been no need for an Atonement.

I'm saying if you are asked to be celibate til the day you die, with no hope of ever having sex, is it reasonable to expect that person to never masturbate once?

I don't know how literal it is.

[MikeWaters]

we are seriously short of mullahs here if we can't get one person to say that this is a reasonable expectation and fits with the injunction of "no temptation given you."

[ute4ever]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Is it reasonable to expect gays to 1) never have gay sex, and 2) never once masturbate.

Does that fit with the idea that God doesn't give us temptation beyond what we can handle?

Any thoughts?

Handicapped people go without sex. Same with fat and ugly people. Nuns and monks choose to.

That response may sound cruel but my point is, there have been people since the dawn of time who have never had any hope of physical companionship. However, back in those days, I don't know how inundated they were with SEX SEX SEX all over the "media."

Experts argue that it is a very human need; yet some people face a lifetime of living without a variety of human needs.

So for a homosexual to have to live a lifetime without sexual relations probably feels cruel and unusual, but I don't think impossible is an accurate term. (But what do I know or you know, because we are both thinking outside of that box).

Here's another analogy that may sound cruel:
If a chain smoker needs to overcome smoking, he shouldn't hang out at smoke-filled bars or around smoking friends. Although it would be very difficult to escape all-things-tobacco, there are various measures he can take.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by ute4ever

Handicapped people go without sex. Same with fat and ugly people. Nuns and monks choose to.

That response may sound cruel but my point is, there have been people since the dawn of time who have never had any hope of physical companionship. However, back in those days, I don't know how inundated they were with SEX SEX SEX all over the "media."

Experts argue that it is a very human need; yet some people face a lifetime of living without a variety of human needs.

So for a homosexual to have to live a lifetime without sexual relations probably feels cruel and unusual, but I don't think impossible is an accurate term. (But what do I know or you know, because we are both thinking outside of that box).

Here's another analogy that may sound cruel:
If a chain smoker needs to overcome smoking, he shouldn't hang out at smoke-filled bars or around smoking friends. Although it would be very difficult to escape all-things-tobacco, there are various measures he can take.

But do they not masturbate?

Incidentally, just like infants and little kids masturbate, the mentally handicapped often do as well often in indiscrete ways. Sometimes the self-stimulation is very regressed--such as "diggers", those that stimulate their anus sometimes to the point of bleeding.

Also it seems that a lot fewer of the cloth than we thought actually chose celibacy.

[SeattleUte]

I've always thought the logical import of this scripture meant that pretty people and people with wealth and power had more character, i.e., more abiltiy to resist temptation, because they were greatly more tempted. How is my logic not right?

[beelzebabette]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Also it seems that a lot fewer of the cloth than we thought actually chose celibacy.

An example of a visible exception being promoted to the rule?

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by beelzebabette

An example of a visible exception being promoted to the rule?

how about this: a lot fewer are choosing celibacy, because a lot fewer are choosing the cloth! That's a fact that they are struggling with numbers.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

how about this: a lot fewer are choosing celibacy, because a lot fewer are choosing the cloth! That's a fact that they are struggling with numbers.

Is the celibacy vow the primary cause of reduced clergy?