Ed Firmage, not disciplined?

[MikeWaters]

U of U emeritus, LDS, and public opponent of church's policy on gay marriage.

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/06/15/byu

Edwin Firmage, a professor emeritus of law at the University of Utah and a member of the LDS church, said that the university is playing politics with the gay marriage issue, and that it isn’t a matter of deep theology in the Mormon faith.

“That a faculty member is being let go for a respectful comment is a disgrace to the university,” said Firmage, a BYU alumnus. “People can differ on what the gospel teaches — part of it is liberty and freedom. The word ‘university’ should mean something. This isn’t Brigham Young Seminary.”

also this:
http://www.kcpw.org/article/901

However, maybe he is an apostate, and therefore not worth excommunicating.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

U of U emeritus, LDS, and public opponent of church's policy on gay marriage.

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/06/15/byu


also this:
http://www.kcpw.org/article/901

However, maybe he is an apostate, and therefore not worth excommunicating.

Last I heard he was an apostate. (So was McMurrin, by the way, as we've discussed.)

[MikeWaters]

If you profess to be a believer, attend church, and have a calling--you will be excommunicated.

But if you are an inactive apostate, you will be left alone.

Kind of weird. I guess one would argue that excommunication is an loving opportunity to repent, and it is only the former category that is worth going to the trouble to excommunicate.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

If you profess to be a believer, attend church, and have a calling--you will be excommunicated.

But if you are an inactive apostate, you will be left alone.

Kind of weird. I guess one would argue that excommunication is an loving opportunity to repent, and it is only the former category that is worth going to the trouble to excommunicate.

I would also guess that it is a function of the effect that the poerson might have on the rest of the members.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by creekster

I would also guess that it is a function of the effect that the poerson might have on the rest of the members.

I think they only ex you if you'd give a hoot. I heard sometimes they won't accept folks' resignations. So I think it's about not doing what people want in this regard.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I think they only ex you if you'd give a hoot. I heard sometimes they won't accept folks' resignations. So I think it's about not doing what people want in this regard.

You are incorrect. "They" will and do accept resignations all the time. I knwo this is absolutely true in my stake.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I think they only ex you if you'd give a hoot. I heard sometimes they won't accept folks' resignations. So I think it's about not doing what people want in this regard.

I linked in the big thread a case where a member asked to be removed, but then the church leaders decided to hold a church court and excommunicate him instead. The guy filed suit, and the case was settled, where the church "undid" the excommunication and said that he would be allowed to resign his membership. He had claimed that his reputation in Mesa, AZ was destroyed by an unjust and untrue excommunication that was held in violation of the church's own rules.

So yes, I think at times there is an element of punitiveness that can be present.

[Requiem]

The Firmage article is excellent. In particular, I like this quote:

"On the other side, are those — like Firmage — who lament the predicament of an intellectual caught in an authoritarian culture. Ultimately, however, I think that the issue of age is more decisive than the issue of authority. Most of the intellectual work of Mormonism has yet to be done."

I don't claim intellectual status, but this comment strikes a chord. It begs the question of when does one cross the line between intellectualism and apostasy?

For example, the advent of what Elder Ballard refers to as the "New Media" enables those with inquisitive minds to find a pandora's box of troubling LDS historical contradictions. Some would say the pursuit of historical truth is the veritable first step to apostasy, but to me it begs the question of the motives behind those who have hidden the facts for far too long.