More fallout from gay marriage spat

[woot]

Originally Posted by Tex

There are always some willing to sell a birthright for pottage.

If birthright = dignity/character, and pottage = some man-made religion, then I agree.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by woot

If birthright = dignity/character, and pottage = some man-made religion, then I agree.

Not how I intended the analogy, no.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Tex

Right. We don't have enough demagoguery here.

Maybe Paul wasn't gay. Maybe when spoke of the thorn in his side, he was referring to someone like you.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Tex

There are always some willing to sell a birthright for pottage.



Right. We don't have enough demagoguery here.

Why if someone has a belief and stands by his or her belief is that person selling thier birthright.

That line of thinking reminds me of the Baptists I allowed into my house who over and over again felt the need to convince me I was going to hell.

If you truly believe in the faith you espouse, I would think your thoughts would be of sorrow for what this person will be missing out on, not some kind of brithright and pottage analogy.

If this fellow truly believes in the doctrines of the church I feel sorry he has to dissassociate himself from the church over an organizational issue. He is a casuality of the need to keep order. That is too bad for him. I don't condemn the church for trying to keep order, but do feel sorry for the guy that his belief compels him not to comply.

[Taq Man]

Originally Posted by Tex

There are always some willing to sell a birthright for pottage.

Just as there are many willing to sell their souls for the company line.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Taq Man

Just as there are many willing to sell their souls for the company line.

Do you really consider not going public with a disagreement you may have with company policy as "selling your soul".

[Taq Man]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Do you really consider not going public with a disagreement you may have with company policy as "selling your soul".

No. Tex was speaking in generalities and I responded in generalities.

Selling ones soul for the company line would be more along the lines of lying for the lord and thinking its O.K.

The Bishop or lay member who agrees with Nielsons stand, agrees with any stand a member makes that is against church policy but keeps silent to protect their "testimony" or the perception of their testimony by others is selling their soul in my opinion. Do you really think God is pleased by the silence? If you think someone is being mistreated I think you have a duty to God and yourself to speak up.

Above all else to thine own self be true is a good way to live a regret free life.

[UtahDan]

I'm getting in late here, but I don't think this had to shake out the way it did. I'm going to focus only on this couple. People diverge with the church in their views on any number of topics. I think that most of the people on the board, including those who get the tag of mullah, have pretty openly diverged on some topics.

I value my membership in the church. So while I'm willing to banter on a message board about these things, I'm not willing to take the risk of writing a letter to the editor. I don't think this is cowardice, but is rather a recognition of how much one potentially has to lose. I find it to be much more a matter of conscience to be a member of the church and keep all of the attendant benefits it provides me and family than I ever would to feel like I need to publicly take a position against the church.

If you really want to change the church, if you really want to influence anyone in the church, why choose to be a former member of the church? All that gets you is high fives from others who got out. You don't influence the organization or its members from that vantage point.

I'm not running these people down for their decision to get out, if that is what works for them. I'm just saying that we all know where the church stands on these things and how it reacts to them. If you test the church in the way this guy says he did, you are taking a big risk. For me, there would be no point to that.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Taq Man

No. Tex was speaking in generalities and I responded in generalities.

Selling ones soul for the company line would be more along the lines of lying for the lord and thinking its O.K.

The Bishop or lay member who agrees with Nielsons stand, agrees with any stand a member makes that is against church policy but keeps silent to protect their "testimony" or the perception of their testimony by others is selling their soul in my opinion. Do you really think God is pleased by the silence? If you think someone is being mistreated I think you have a duty to God and yourself to speak up.

Above all else to thine own self be true is a good way to live a regret free life.

Here's a different question. Let's say a member agrees with Nielsen's stand but not his mode of expressing his disagreement, does that member have any moral obligation in your opinion to voice his support for Nielsen even though he disagreed with the mode of disagreement?

Does the member who agrees with Nielsen but simply doesn't wish to get involved, because although the member agrees in principle, he simply doesn't believe it's that important to go public?

Some people are private people, is that immoral in your opinion?

[Taq Man]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Here's a different question. Let's say a member agrees with Nielsen's stand but not his mode of expressing his disagreement, does that member have any moral obligation in your opinion to voice his support for Nielsen even though he disagreed with the mode of disagreement?

Does the member who agrees with Nielsen but simply doesn't wish to get involved, because although the member agrees in principle, he simply doesn't believe it's that important to go public?

Some people are private people, is that immoral in your opinion?

No. If you disagree with his method and or the importance of the message then you are being true to yourself.

However, personal compromising can start small and snowball until you let things pass that in retrospect one can feel shame for.