Seer Stones and the Urim and Thummim

[MikeWaters]

Is there any evidence that the Urim and Thummim that Joseph possessed are in the church's hands?

Also, if there any reason to not believe that a seer stone might be a useful spiritual object for members' own use for personal revelation?

To me, a seer stone hints at magic. And I've already said that I tend to adopt a more scientific view of God and his power. Getting revelation through a stone seems antithetical to this, but I am open to ideas.

Talismans seemed to be very important to Joseph. And now are the church that scorns talismans most favored by modern Christians--crosses and crucifixes.

If one were interested in pursuing this in one's own life (akin to seeking spiritual gifts), would one necessarily be losing one's way?

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Is there any evidence that the Urim and Thummim that Joseph possessed are in the church's hands?

Also, if there any reason to not believe that a seer stone might be a useful spiritual object for members' own use for personal revelation?

To me, a seer stone hints at magic. And I've already said that I tend to adopt a more scientific view of God and his power. Getting revelation through a stone seems antithetical to this, but I am open to ideas.

Talismans seemed to be very important to Joseph. And now are the church that scorns talismans most favored by modern Christians--crosses and crucifixes.

If one were interested in pursuing this in one's own life (akin to seeking spiritual gifts), would one necessarily be losing one's way?

What do you classify the Liahona as? Fiber optics? Wireless communication?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-emitting_diode

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

What do you classify the Liahona as? Fiber optics? Wireless communication?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-emitting_diode

replicating the liahona with bear grylls wouldn't be so difficult. Waterproof it, LCD screen, wireless commmunication.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Talismans seemed to be very important to Joseph. And now are the church that scorns talismans most favored by modern Christians--crosses and crucifixes.

What is a CTR ring if not a talisman?

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

What is a CTR ring if not a talisman?

I think it depends on the way it is considered. I never considered my CTR ring, when i was 8 years old, to have any particular spiritual power.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

What is a CTR ring if not a talisman?

A visible reminder to Choose the Right. Nothing more.

Tie string around your finger to help you to remember to put out the trash.

Same difference.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

What is a CTR ring if not a talisman?

1 : an object held to act as a charm to avert evil and bring good fortune
2 : something producing apparently magical or miraculous effects

Despite an 8-year-old's vivid imagination, that seems a stretch.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Is there any evidence that the Urim and Thummim that Joseph possessed are in the church's hands?

No.

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Also, if there any reason to not believe that a seer stone might be a useful spiritual object for members' own use for personal revelation?

N/A

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

To me, a seer stone hints at magic. And I've already said that I tend to adopt a more scientific view of God and his power.

No you don't, and this post is proof of that.

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Talismans seemed to be very important to Joseph. And now are the church that scorns talismans most favored by modern Christians--crosses and crucifixes.

It's not true that thoughtful Christians at any time have regarded crosses and crucifixes as talismans, anything more than sybmols. Maybe Christians whose ancestors fought on the side of the Confederacy did. Did you know Augustine was not a biblical literalist, believed the stories were allegorical?

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

If one were interested in pursuing this in one's own life (akin to seeking spiritual gifts), would one necessarily be losing one's way?

Yes. Absolutely.

[Solon]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Is there any evidence that the Urim and Thummim that Joseph possessed are in the church's hands?

Also, if there any reason to not believe that a seer stone might be a useful spiritual object for members' own use for personal revelation?

To me, a seer stone hints at magic. And I've already said that I tend to adopt a more scientific view of God and his power. Getting revelation through a stone seems antithetical to this, but I am open to ideas.

Talismans seemed to be very important to Joseph. And now are the church that scorns talismans most favored by modern Christians--crosses and crucifixes.

If one were interested in pursuing this in one's own life (akin to seeking spiritual gifts), would one necessarily be losing one's way?

I recommend Quinn's Early Mormonism and the Magic World View. Some photos from his book:

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Tex

1 : an object held to act as a charm to avert evil and bring good fortune
2 : something producing apparently magical or miraculous effects

Despite an 8-year-old's vivid imagination, that seems a stretch.

How about garments? That seems to fit the bill.