Should we worship Satan instead of Jesus?

[Solon]

Should we worship Satan instead of Jesus?

I went attended a lecture from William Hansen last night, a respected scholar of classics and folklore at Indiana University in Bloomington.
http://www.indiana.edu/~deanfac/bios/2005/WHansen.pdf

His talk, entitled “The Myth of the Fettered God” compared the essential elements of differing versions of a similar myth from ancient Greece, Nordic tradition, and the Caucasus region. In all three of these locales, a myth was/is perpetuated about an immortal being (god with a lower-case ‘g’) who is bound by God (capital ‘G’) and tortured for a very long time (maybe forever). The tale continues to this day in the Caucasus mountain region.

The ancient Greek and Norse traditions are very similar, with four figures being punished for various (similar) misdeeds. The most important and prominent is Hansen’s pairing of Prometheus, the firebringer, with the Norse god Loki, a cunning and clever being who commits atrocious acts but also benefits gods and men.

In the Caucasus today, differing versions of the myth either lament the imprisonment of a generous benefactor by a cruel and arbitrary god (i.e. Prometheus) or they are grateful that a dangerous being has been chained or bound, since his loosing will indicate the end of the world.

At dinner after the lecture, I asked Bill how he would compare Christian themes of the bound God. He noted that many have wondered about Christ being a fettered god, in the Promethean theme of a savior figure suffering for his gifts to humanity. I didn’t disagree (I see a lot of Christian typology in Prometheus), but I noted that I consider Satan to be a better example of a fettered god.

Consider: Lucifer (Light-Bringer = Prometheus?) opposes his father in an attempt to save humanity, is notoriously clever, is punished by being “bound” (D&C 45.55) but his loosing will mark the end of the world (D&C 43.31). Although the match and perhaps sequentiality aren't perfect (they rarely are in comparative myths), it’s clear that the same elements are at work.

Those who would compare Lucifer’s battle with other ancient myths would find a decent comparison with the traditions of sons overthrowing fathers (e.g. Kronos and Ouranos, Zeus and Kronos. In both of these Greek versions of Ancient Near East themes, daring sons overthrew cruel and unjust fathers. In comparison, though, Lucifer has come up short (so far).

In the end, comparative myth is more interesting than instructive, but it appears to me that Lucifer has more elements of the fettered god (that often doubles as mankind’s champion against a cruel and irrational higher God) than does Jesus. Judging from mythic traditions, perhaps Lucifer is the fettered god humans should acknowledge as their champion.

[SoCalCoug]

Where do the goat sacrifices come in?

[Indy Coug]

It's my opinion that ancient myths such as Prometheus date back to Adam rather than Christian "myths" being the result of liberal co-opting of Greek, Assyrian and Babylonian myths.

Back in the humanity's infancy, they had the Gospel. As time marched on and humanity continued to fragment into various groups and drift away from the Gospel, they still clung on to various elements of the Gospel and manipulated them to fit their new belief system.

$0.02

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

It's my opinion that ancient myths such as Prometheus date back to Adam rather than Christian "myths" being the result of liberal co-opting of Greek, Assyrian and Babylonian myths.

Back in the humanity's infancy, they had the Gospel. As time marched on and humanity continued to fragment into various groups and drift away from the Gospel, they still clung on to various elements of the Gospel and manipulated them to fit their new belief system.

$0.02

This is a conventional approach, but not one which current research and scholarship can support. We have yet to find the distributive patterns which one would predict to validate that theory.

[Solon]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

It's my opinion that ancient myths such as Prometheus date back to Adam rather than Christian "myths" being the result of liberal co-opting of Greek, Assyrian and Babylonian myths.

Back in the humanity's infancy, they had the Gospel. As time marched on and humanity continued to fragment into various groups and drift away from the Gospel, they still clung on to various elements of the Gospel and manipulated them to fit their new belief system.

$0.02

I think this is the pretty standard LDS approach, that there was Original Truth that was corrupted over time. this approach, though, seems to struggle to resolve issues that appear to have been part of the original story but no longer correspond to modern belief (i.e. the Hebrew worship of a female goddess - Asherah). Whether in the OT, NT, or 20th century, there seems to be a tension between the idealized "Original Truth" and "Today's Version". More often than not, I suspect, "Original Truth" is modified to correspond with status quo.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by Solon

I More often than not, I suspect, "Original Truth" is modified to correspond with status quo.

Very intriguing comment. Do you have modern examples where this theory applies?

[Solon]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Very intriguing comment. Do you have modern examples where this theory applies?

It seems like there are several, although how far back you go for that "Original Truth" varies.

The most obvious isn't modern, but the redaction of the Old Testament - probably by Ezra/Nehemiah made Jewish scripture correspond to contemporary worship.

SIEQ's astute observation of the issues with 1 Corinthians 15 demonstrate the hokey nature of the JST (at least for these verses)
http://cougarguard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6977

In a more recent example, Quinn's documentation of Joseph Smith's magic world view demonstrates decisively, IMO, that the Original Truth of Smith's treasure-hunting techniques have been cleanly scrubbed to appear more 20th century PC.

It's not a singularly LDS phenomenon. It seems like all religions do it, but it's most obvious to me in the Judaeo-Christian tradition with women and plurality of deities. Anecdotally, it seems like LDS antiquarians seize upon the polytheism (corresponds to LDS theology, anti-trinity), but avoid the feminism (counters LDS policy).

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by Archaea

This is a conventional approach, but not one which current research and scholarship can support. We have yet to find the distributive patterns which one would predict to validate that theory.

Sorry, but all this study ignores the 'orient' and their traditions, myths, history. Quite myopic, but hey!

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by Solon

It seems like there are several, although how far back you go for that "Original Truth" varies.

The most obvious isn't modern, but the redaction of the Old Testament - probably by Ezra/Nehemiah made Jewish scripture correspond to contemporary worship.

SIEQ's astute observation of the issues with 1 Corinthians 15 demonstrate the hokey nature of the JST (at least for these verses)
http://cougarguard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6977

In a more recent example, Quinn's documentation of Joseph Smith's magic world view demonstrates decisively, IMO, that the Original Truth of Smith's treasure-hunting techniques have been cleanly scrubbed to appear more 20th century PC.

It's not a singularly LDS phenomenon. It seems like all religions do it, but it's most obvious to me in the Judaeo-Christian tradition with women and plurality of deities. Anecdotally, it seems like LDS antiquarians seize upon the polytheism (corresponds to LDS theology, anti-trinity), but avoid the feminism (counters LDS policy).

Because a classicist says it -it must be so The world is not only flat but oral and written history originated exclusively in Europe, specifically the mediterranean ... but only with certain dominant cultures.

[ChinoCoug]

Originally Posted by tooblue

Because a classicist says it -it must be so The world is not only flat but oral and written history originated exclusively in Europe, specifically the mediterranean ... but only with certain dominant cultures.

well satired