01-24-2007, 03:31 PM | #11 |
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Okay, I see what you're saying, but the problem is the small plates were not an abridgment. The material was written by Nephi himself, unabridged, and then included later. The Isaiah material, according to Nephi, came straight off the brass plates. There was Isaiah material on those brass plates that had not been written yet. Hence the problem.
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01-24-2007, 03:37 PM | #12 | |
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Assuming your premise is correct, who's to say how or when the Nephites obtained the various writings of Isaiah? Certainly the existence of the Mulekites would show that there is a possibility that they or some other unnamed group that arrived in the Americas might have had any writings of Isaiah that would post-date Lehi's departure from Jerusalem. |
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01-24-2007, 03:44 PM | #13 | |
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01-24-2007, 03:51 PM | #14 |
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So what's your conclusion?
1. Nephi lied or failed to fully explain himself. 2. Joseph Smith lied, or failed to fully explain himself 3. Additional Isaiah writings were acquired by the Nephites after arriving in America and were inserted by Mormon or someone else without documenting that fact 4. God had Joseph Smith stick it in there because it was as good a spot as any 5. The mainstream dating of 2nd Isaiah is flawed. 6. Other |
01-24-2007, 04:00 PM | #15 | |
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2. No, I don't think so... 3. No, given what Nephi says about the brass plates 4. This is the most likely, if you believe JS was inspired. 5. If you just read it, the answer is no. 6. ***my opinion: The BOM is not historical, there's too much evidence against it and none for it. Beyond that, who knows? Warm fuzzies tell me nothing. Personally I'm fine with it and have embraced the ambiguity. If the BOM is inspired, fine. I'm open to it but don't know. |
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01-24-2007, 04:19 PM | #16 |
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Is this your way of saying that you don't believe in witnesses from the Holy Ghost? That you don't believe in a spiritual dimension removed from rationalism?
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01-24-2007, 04:28 PM | #17 | |
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As for a spiritual dimension, I'm open to it, but don't trust feelings as a guide for truth. So at this point, I don't know, and I take a wait for further light and knowledge approach. I'm NOT asserting or arguing that there is NO spiritual dimension, and I'm honestly not trying to argue with anyone one way or the other. This is a sidetrack for me, I'm more interested in arguing historical issues, such as source criticism of the BOM, dating of Isaiah, NT textual criticism, etc. |
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01-24-2007, 04:32 PM | #18 |
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My aunt told me "when i was a Catholic, I would feel the spirit at times. When I became Mormon, I felt it more often and stronger."
I don't think that the spirit is exclusive to a particular religion. And because it is not, I don't think that is a reason to dismiss it. |
01-24-2007, 04:35 PM | #19 | |
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In what order and over what time frame did Nephi restate in his own writing what he had read and seen in visions, that was in turn abridged? How many small plates involving dealings with God and the Nephite nation verses larger 'a peoples history' plates did Mormon have to study and draw from for his abridgment? Furthermore the more and more I read this section it is not always clear to me at what point Nephi is no longer speaking and in fact Jacob is speaking, in addition to the author of the abridgment? Perhaps it's due mostly to my poor reading comprehension? I am not stretching, or looking for a silver bullet explaination. The Book of Mormon is a whole work of abridgment, note merely a complilation. I feel there is a very clear distinction to be made. |
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01-24-2007, 04:37 PM | #20 | |
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