In my opinion - Page 5 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

MikeWaters · 10-01-2007, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

Patterson took advantage of a conference, or perhap conferences, that was even worse than the MWC. I know he beat a bad Oklahoma team, has TCU ever beaten a team under Paterson that finished ranked other than CSU in 2000 I think it was?

I think he is a solid coach, but before we continue on with what he did he inherited a decent program from Franchione. I can't recall if he inherited LT or not. Regardless, he did not bring TCU up from the ashes.

Perhaps institutional support might be more at BYU but so is institutional meddling, unless it is well managed and/or run off. A HC at BYU has to deal with a hell of a lot more than a HC at TCU. I don't even think it is a comparison.

Finally, I like BYU's recruiting base for many positions. However, it is unquestionable that TCU should recruit far better skill players even with Texas and aTm left overs. BYU cannot win games with the best LDS cornerbacks even if their OL has 2-3 future NFL players.

I think the longer Patterson stays at TCU the less national cache he has. He now has to deal with BYU year in and year out. This ain't conference USA or the post Mtn West WAC.

Finally, head to head......Patterson beat Bronco once but more because of attrition than coaching. There was no excuse for Patterson to lose that game to BYU last year with all the advantages TCU had.

does this list of recruits look impressive to you?

http://tcu.rivals.com/commitlist.asp?school=189

jay santos · 10-01-2007, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

does this list of recruits look impressive to you?

http://tcu.rivals.com/commitlist.asp?school=189

Their 2007 list was better than ours when it comes to stars. And 2007 was our best class in long time. Whether I'd rather recruit to BYU or TCU is very close. I could argue either way.

Goatnapper'96 · 10-01-2007, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

does this list of recruits look impressive to you?

http://tcu.rivals.com/commitlist.asp?school=189

A partial list with 4 or was it 5 verbal comitts?

Are you seriously arguing that it is easier to recruit consistent talent to BYU over TCU, across the board?

I can accept in certain positions that the LDS base supports but not in the skilled positions. I still recall you once taking a stand that the Renfro kid was much better than Mackay Jacobsen and that TCU will always outrecruit BYU for skill players. Can a brother know which side you stand upon?

MikeWaters · 10-01-2007, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

A partial list with 4 or was it 5 verbal comitts?

Are you seriously arguing that it is easier to recruit consistent talent to BYU over TCU, across the board?

I can accept in certain positions that the LDS base supports but not in the skilled positions. I still recall you once taking a stand that the Renfro kid was much better than Mackay Jacobsen and that TCU will always outrecruit BYU for skill players. Can a brother know which side you stand upon?

Damn, you have the memory of ExUte!

Renfro was rated higher by the Dallas Morning News. However now as a RS Frosh, he is not on the two-deep, and has not accrued a statistic.

TCU recruits on the strength of Patterson.

BYU recruits on the strength of BYU. You could make Lance Reynolds the coach after the season and recruiting would be close to the same.

Advantage Bronco, in terms of ease of recruiting.

Goatnapper'96 · 10-01-2007, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Damn, you have the memory of ExUte!

Renfro was rated higher by the Dallas Morning News. However now as a RS Frosh, he is not on the two-deep, and has not accrued a statistic.

TCU recruits on the strength of Patterson.

BYU recruits on the strength of BYU. You could make Lance Reynolds the coach after the season and recruiting would be close to the same.

Advantage Bronco, in terms of ease of recruiting.

Can you explain why it is easier? Are you saying that the top notch kids from Utah are better than Texas' and aTm's scraps from the great State of Texas?

Perhaps I am mistaken, but I recall you once taking a stand that the scraps from Texas are much better than the top talent from Utah.

Once again, can you take a stand and explain why you are on whatever side you are on because I am getting confused. Most of your arguments would seem to indicate that it would be easier in Texas, but then you are claiming it is easier for Bronco, who coaches in Utah. You have yet to explain why it would be easier for Bronco except that BYU recruits to its strength. Are you saying that BYU should be better because of its strength with Utah studs being better than Texas scraps in the trenches?

Are you really sure you wanna take this stand?

MikeWaters · 10-01-2007, 11:14 PM

BYU has an easier time recruiting because of its institutional strength and tradition.

An example would be Rutgers and Notre Dame. ND will recruit better than Rutgers, even if Rutgers doesn't lose another game, and ND doesn't win a game the rest of the season.

Btw, there is no law in Texas that says Texas recruits must stay in Texas. Texas recruits go all over the country. OU, UT, A&M are just the locals in line.

Of the top 100 Texas recruits this year, only 3 have committed to non-BCS schools--one each to Houston, North Texas, and TCU. The only reason North Texas is on the list is because the recruit is the coach's son. The one TCU recruit is ranked 92nd, lest we are under the illusion that this is a top 20 recruit. Did you notice which school dominates the list? Hint: it's not in Texas.

Unfortunately the top 100 for Utah only displays the top 10. How many of these players have committed to a BCS school? Zero.

You still want to argue that TCU has it easier? TCU with its empty stadium, with it's commuter students?

MikeWaters · 10-01-2007, 11:18 PM

another thing to remember Goat, is that Bronco's only real marquee win is over....Patterson and TCU in 2006.

if you read Patterson's bio, his win over BYU does not figure nearly as prominently.

MikeWaters · 10-01-2007, 11:25 PM

btw, according to this website, Bronco and Patterson make the same amount of $. Just under $1 million per year.
http://www.coacheshotseat.com/SalariesContracts.htm

Indy Coug · 10-01-2007, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

btw, according to this website, Bronco and Patterson make the same amount of $. Just under $1 million per year.
http://www.coacheshotseat.com/SalariesContracts.htm

I don't believe anyone that claims they know what Bronco really makes.

Goatnapper'96 · 10-02-2007, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

another thing to remember Goat, is that Bronco's only real marquee win is over....Patterson and TCU in 2006.

if you read Patterson's bio, his win over BYU does not figure nearly as prominently.

Has Patterson beaten a team other than CSU in 2000 that finished the year ranked?

I am not going to research, but from my memory Patterson's best win was CSU. I know he beat Oklahoma but didn't the Sooners finish that year at about .500?

So if Patterson's best win, with a 5 year head start on Bronco, is beating a ranked MWC team just as Bronco's is, why is it relevant that Bronco's was Patterson?

Further, Bronco's low, the 2005 year, is nowhere near the low that Patterson's 2004 club hit.

10-01-2007, 11:14 PM	#46
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	BYU has an easier time recruiting because of its institutional strength and tradition. An example would be Rutgers and Notre Dame. ND will recruit better than Rutgers, even if Rutgers doesn't lose another game, and ND doesn't win a game the rest of the season. Btw, there is no law in Texas that says Texas recruits must stay in Texas. Texas recruits go all over the country. OU, UT, A&M are just the locals in line. Of the top 100 Texas recruits this year, only 3 have committed to non-BCS schools--one each to Houston, North Texas, and TCU. The only reason North Texas is on the list is because the recruit is the coach's son. The one TCU recruit is ranked 92nd, lest we are under the illusion that this is a top 20 recruit. Did you notice which school dominates the list? Hint: it's not in Texas. Unfortunately the top 100 for Utah only displays the top 10. How many of these players have committed to a BCS school? Zero. You still want to argue that TCU has it easier? TCU with its empty stadium, with it's commuter students?

10-01-2007, 11:18 PM	#47
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	another thing to remember Goat, is that Bronco's only real marquee win is over....Patterson and TCU in 2006. if you read Patterson's bio, his win over BYU does not figure nearly as prominently.

10-01-2007, 11:25 PM	#48
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	btw, according to this website, Bronco and Patterson make the same amount of $. Just under $1 million per year. http://www.coacheshotseat.com/SalariesContracts.htm