HB Arnett really down about this recruiting class

[Indy Coug]

A 3 star player that works his butt off is better than a 5 star head case that disrupts team unity and has the work ethic of a anaesthetized tree sloth.

[TheSizzle36]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

This is like in the 3rd day of the siege of the Alamo, someone discovers 3 unopened boxes of chocolates.

Yeah, it's a great thing. But it isn't the larger picture.

I don't exactly disagree. The thing is, which conferences have their games on prime CBS, ABC or ESPN spots? If your conference doesn't have a "Big", "SEC" or "Pac" in front of it, you aren't shown. The idea to have a channel devoted entirely to a conference isn't a bad one. The Big 10 (11) has followed suit, and I wouldn't be surprised to see more like them soon. Now, the way that the distribution has gone has been a disaster, I don't think anybody would disagree, but the concept is the next best step.

Our biggest problem is with our conference. It is irrelevant. Or maybe mostly irrelevant. We can have 9 channels dedicated to each team in the conference, but if nobody cares enough to watch them, what does it matter? I think those in charge know this, but what can you really do? Get into a bigger conference? I think we'd love to, but you can't just go to the Pac 10 and say "We're in". You can take a chance at independence, but is the risk worth it? Or you can build a program that is consistent top 20 material and earn the invite that way. Or, ideally, you change the rules (BCS) and make the playing field more level. Those problems, IMO, are higher up than Holmoe.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by TheSizzle36

I don't exactly disagree. The thing is, which conferences have their games on prime CBS, ABC or ESPN spots? If your conference doesn't have a "Big", "SEC" or "Pac" in front of it, you aren't shown. The idea to have a channel devoted entirely to a conference isn't a bad one. The Big 10 (11) has followed suit, and I wouldn't be surprised to see more like them soon. Now, the way that the distribution has gone has been a disaster, I don't think anybody would disagree, but the concept is the next best step.

Our biggest problem is with our conference. It is irrelevant. Or maybe mostly irrelevant. We can have 9 channels dedicated to each team in the conference, but if nobody cares enough to watch them, what does it matter? I think those in charge know this, but what can you really do? Get into a bigger conference? I think we'd love to, but you can't just go to the Pac 10 and say "We're in". You can take a chance at independence, but is the risk worth it? Or you can build a program that is consistent top 20 material and earn the invite that way. Or, ideally, you change the rules (BCS) and make the playing field more level. Those problems, IMO, are higher up than Holmoe.

First off, only the crap games in the Big 10 are on the Big 10 channels. The good games get the same national exposure they have always gotten.

Only we are in the situation of having ALL our games on crap channels.

We need niche exposure, like Thursday night ESPN. But we have lost that. And even when we had it, we complained about it.

Death is coming.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by TheSizzle36

Yes, it sucks to have missed out on some of those guys, but BYU has consistently missed out on some of the top LDS recruits... look at guys like Sean Saulisberry, Haloti Ngata, Erik Ainge, the D-Lineman now at Tennessee, Havili and so forth. Losing Kavenga sucks, but it's life. HB didn't mention guys like Holt, Sorenson, Chambers (or does he not count because he isn't LDS?) who can make an impact.

IMO, you don't need all 25 guys to be studs to win. Yeah, it sure helps, but there are only 22 starters on a football team, and if you have really good players, they play significant minutes for 4 years. The good players play 3 years, and you try to fill in the gaps with guys who play 2. If you get 7 legit players in each class, you should be fine. If you can get more than that, obviously you want to, great, but if not, you can survive.

Holt, Afutiti, Chambers, Daniel Sorenson, Shilo Te'o, Jake Murphy, Sete Pohahau and Michael Alisa all look like guys who IMO can come in and play. I think there are a few other guys who are have nice upside, like Bol, Yeck and Bruner. There are also some other JC guys who could potentially make an impact and crack the 2 deep.

While it would have been nice to land a few of the recruits HB mentioned, I think Kavenga is the one that really stings, if only because he committed and backed out. Stevens is the only other one that I felt like we had a realistic shot at, and he would have been a nice add too, but not a class wrecker. Kruger was a Ute and I don't think BYU had much of a shot, BYU quit recruiting Prince (though I can't remember why). I guess what I'm saying is I'm not sure how heavily BYU went after those other guys, maybe they had no interest in BYU, or maybe it was mutual. I really don't know. However, I don't think this is as bad of a class as HB is making it out to be. Yes, it would have been better had we landed Kavenga and Stevens, but it's not the end of the world.

Don't know if the Ainge thing was a joke, but you just listed three guys over a period of what 20 years?. Missing out on Mapu and Ngata was so huge because we'd been so successful at retaining top LDS. We might have missed out on a few of the top 10 LDS every year, now we're only getting a few out of the top 10. That's a very troubling trend.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Don't know if the Ainge thing was a joke, but you just listed three guys over a period of what 20 years?. Missing out on Mapu and Ngata was so huge because we'd been so successful at retaining top LDS. We might have missed out on a few of the top 10 LDS every year, now we're only getting a few out of the top 10. That's a very troubling trend.

Tell you what: you put together some meaningful top 10 LDS recruit list by year covering 1985 to 2000 and we'll see if there's really a trend, or if you're just blowing smoke out your ass.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Adam

I don't think Bronco likes the truly gifted 5 star recruits. He honestly prefers to win with walk-ons I think.

He was a walk on to Snow and then clawed his way to the top at Oregon. He was a no star HS guy. He relates to the less talented but more committed and more passionate players who are less heralded.

His whole playing philosophy is based on effort and execution. He really doesn't think he is winning because he has better athletes with more talent/skill then other teams. He is winning because his guys want it more and play harder and practice harder and because they are living right off the field. He would rather put out walk-on corners out on the field that are singing in his firesides and spending 8 hours a day all summer in the training facility then a 5 star recruit who can run and jump like Deion Sanders but who who doesn't really try all that hard to get to the ball when he sees an inside hand-off. I really believe this.

So while Bronco makes the obligatory call and visit to a 4 or 5 star LDS recruit, I think Bronco doesn't really care if they come--he actually honestly feels that way. I think his attitude is that the highly touted HS player will mainly be a distraction, a prima donna, a ball hog with a sense of entitlement. They have to prove themselves to be otherwise if they do come--so they start behind the curve in his dog house to a certain degree (to mix metaphors).

That is how I read him anyway. And I am ok with that. If he keeps winning, more and more of the top LDS recruits who want to life the gospel will want to come. But we are never going to get all of them because not all of them want to put in Bronco-pleasing effort and not all of them want to sing the night before the game. Good luck to them elsewhere.

This post summarizes my concerns about Bronco.

He's small-time. He was never a talented player. He never coached for great programs. Never been involved with NFL or BCS limelight.

He believes in his system. He's said before his system is more important than players. He doesn't recruit as hard as other top college coaches. He's never going to be a guy that flies all over, sitting in living rooms and selling himself and the program.

Maybe he can hire assistants to be that guy, and he can make a little bit more of an effort.

Right now, I am very concerned his attitude towards recruiting and refusal to schmooze and kiss a little high school ass to get what he wants is going to end up hurting the program.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by jay santos

This post summarizes my concerns about Bronco.

He's small-time. He was never a talented player. He never coached for great programs. Never been involved with NFL or BCS limelight.

He believes in his system. He's said before his system is more important than players. He doesn't recruit as hard as other top college coaches. He's never going to be a guy that flies all over, sitting in living rooms and selling himself and the program.

Maybe he can hire assistants to be that guy, and he can make a little bit more of an effort.

Right now, I am very concerned his attitude towards recruiting and refusal to schmooze and kiss a little high school ass to get what he wants is going to end up hurting the program.

Do you purposely forget recruiting stories like So'oto and Matangi Tonga?

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Do you purposely forget recruiting stories like So'oto and Matangi Tonga?

I'm looking for 20 stories like So'oto and Tonga a year. Not stories like Siliaga where he says Bronco ignored him and told him he had to recruit him not vice versa, meanwhile Anderson and KW are building a relationship. Or stories like Kaveinga where he says USC acted like they wanted him more and BYU/Bronco homers say they're glad Bronco didn't fawn after him--that it sets up your program for failure when you go kiss up to HS players like that. If they don't want us, we don't want him.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I'm looking for 20 stories like So'oto and Tonga a year. Not stories like Siliaga where he says Bronco ignored him and told him he had to recruit him not vice versa, meanwhile Anderson and KW are building a relationship. Or stories like Kaveinga where he says USC acted like they wanted him more and BYU/Bronco homers say they're glad Bronco didn't fawn after him--that it sets up your program for failure when you go kiss up to HS players like that. If they don't want us, we don't want him.

The interesting thing is we only get the info from one side. Bronco doesn't talk (CAN'T talk for most of the year) about what goes on in recruiting. And you're basing this opinion on only one side of the equation.


I find it hard to believe a kid who says he didn't choose BYU because "they told me I had to recruit them" when, based on stories from other recruits (the ones who chose BYU) the opposite occurred. I'll personally choose to believe the kids that chose BYU as giving a more accurate account of what occurred.


How do you reconcile your belief that BYU doesn't work hard at recruiting with Martinez' claim that Doman has sent him a hand-written letter once a week since the first week it was allowed?

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Taq Man

Thats the problem though. Why can't the coaching staff sell these recruits on the school so they want to come. Utah I can understand, but BYU should have a huge leg up in getting the LDS recruits. It is troubling that BM can't seal the deal.

Perhaps BYU just isn't as great as some BYU fans think it is.

BYU got the kids that wanted to play at BYU.