New Coaches poll: BYU down 1, Utah up 2

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Two key things happened, Penn State jumped us entirely and SC is making a move.

No matter what happens, and the USU game proves to me, we are barely BCS worthy if we win out, BYU cannot make the NC game no matter what, because USC should not stumble again.

I am thinking something similar, although I am not entirely convinced SC will win out. But teams in the B12 and SEC that have 1 loss....or even 2.....is it really crazy to say they are better than BYU....who is playing New Mexico this weekend? Oklahoma and Texas play each other this weekend. We are playing the Lobos. Why should either UT or OU, regardless of outcome, drop below BYU? Makes no sense.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I am thinking something similar, although I am not entirely convinced SC will win out. But teams in the B12 and SEC that have 1 loss....or even 2.....is it really crazy to say they are better than BYU....who is playing New Mexico this weekend? Oklahoma and Texas play each other this weekend. We are playing the Lobos. Why should either UT or OU, regardless of outcome, drop below BYU? Makes no sense.

The schedule arguments are crazy imho. The BCS conferences didn't clamor to get into those conferences, but rather demographics and geographical realities created these benefits for them. So I don't see any reason to pat them on the back for playing each other, and the SEC teams show, when they have an elective, they usually select a silly out-classed opponent.

From watching too much football, I've determined that the SEC is loaded with good defenses and mediocre offenses. The teams are good this year but in the fairness of evaluating how much a team does with a lot, it seems we credit the SEC too much. It's not very pretty football to watch. Did anybody watch Alabama versus Kentucky? That was awful.

Vandy beating Auburn was a bright spot, though both offenses sputtered. Surprise, Auburn sputtered against Tennessee.

The Big 12 is the land of great offenses but it's hard to rate their defenses.

To be deserving a team should have to play notable nonconference games and do well in conference. In good years, the Pac 10 usually fills this bill, and in some years, the Big 12 does. The SEC are f...ing cowards. They should be punished for their cowardice.

The USU game has me wondering how bad are we. That was a terribly sloppy game. It was awful. Let's hope BYU cleans up its act against UNM, and waxes the floor with them, but I'm uncertain it will happen.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Archaea

The schedule arguments are crazy imho. The BCS conferences didn't clamor to get into those conferences, but rather demographics and geographical realities created these benefits for me. So I don't see any reason to pat them on the back for playing each other, and the SEC teams show, when they have an elective, they usually select a silly out-classed opponent.

From watching too much football, I've determined that the SEC is loaded with good defenses and mediocre offenses. The teams are good this year but in the fairness of evaluating how much a team does with a lot, it seems we credit the SEC too much. It's not very pretty football to watch. Did anybody watch Alabama versus Kentucky? That was awful.

Vandy beating Auburn was a bright spot, though both offenses sputtered. Surprise, Auburn sputtered against Tennessee.

The Big 12 is the land of great offenses but it's hard to rate their defenses.

To be deserving a team should have to play notable nonconference games and do well in conference. In good years, the Pac 10 usually fills this bill, and in some years, the Big 12 does. The SEC are f...ing cowards. They should be punished for their cowardice.

The USU game has me wondering how bad are we. That was a terribly sloppy game. It was awful. Let's hope BYU cleans up its act against UNM, and waxes the floor with them, but I'm uncertain it will happen.

What I think will happen....coaches will be less likely to move BYU up at all from here as it becomes obvious that we really havent shown any worthiness to play in the NC game.....same for Utah. Our conference schedule week in and week out is just too crappy. Somewhere around week 8, look for teams with losses to start jumping us.

If the Y or the U win out, they will play in a BCS bowl. Neither one will play in the NC game, nor should they with such an awful schedule. It isnt our fault that UW and UCLA sucked this year. It isnt Utah's fault that Michigan sucks this year (and likely OSU). But, bottom line is that they do suck.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

What I think will happen....coaches will be less likely to move BYU up at all from here as it becomes obvious that we really havent shown any worthiness to play in the NC game.....same for Utah. Our conference schedule week in and week out is just too crappy. Somewhere around week 8, look for teams with losses to start jumping us.

If the Y or the U win out, they will play in a BCS bowl. Neither one will play in the NC game, nor should they with such an awful schedule. It isnt our fault that UW and UCLA sucked this year. It isnt Utah's fault that Michigan sucks this year (and likely OSU). But, bottom line is that they do suck.

We shouldn't play in the game, because we aren't good enough, not because of the quality of our schedule. We are largely NOT in control of schedule; the only aspect we can control is the quality of our product.

Didn't OU play USU this year or last and scored 70 points by half-time? It's the pathetic performances that show we're not good enough, not the quality of schedule IMHO.

Fundamentally, I disagree with the concept that teams should be disqualified by virtue of a lack of quality opponents. However, attuned eyes, not mine, should be able to discern the quality of athletes and schemes employed to rate them.

In Utah's fabled run, that team was damn good. It demolished all teams on its schedule.

For BYU or Utah to be NC game worthy they need to demolish teams from here on out and pathetic USU games won't cut it. If either goes on a wrecking crew roll, then they may deserve consideration.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Archaea

For BYU or Utah to be NC game worthy they need to demolish teams from here on out and pathetic USU games won't cut it.

Agreed 100%.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I am thinking something similar, although I am not entirely convinced SC will win out. But teams in the B12 and SEC that have 1 loss....or even 2.....is it really crazy to say they are better than BYU....who is playing New Mexico this weekend? Oklahoma and Texas play each other this weekend. We are playing the Lobos. Why should either UT or OU, regardless of outcome, drop below BYU? Makes no sense.

It is crazy to conclude that they are "better" than BYU based on SOS. You can conclude that an undefeated team with a tough SOS is a good team. You could not conclude that an undefeated team with a bad SOS is not a good team. A bad SOS makes it more difficult to evaluate whether or not a team is actually good. It says nothing about whether or not they are actually good.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

It is crazy to conclude that they are "better" than BYU based on SOS. You can conclude that an undefeated team with a tough SOS is a good team. You could not conclude that an undefeated team with a bad SOS is not a good team. A bad SOS makes it more difficult to evaluate whether or not a team is actually good. It says nothing about whether or not they are actually good.

Fair. I agree with this. I was simply skipping to the end result, but I agree with your analysis.

Utah 2004 was clearly a good team. But they were not given the chance to play for the NC...and really should not have been given the chance. SC, OU, and Auburn were also undefeated and played a much more difficult schedule. But I agree that we will never know how well Utah would have done against those 3 teams.

This just goes back to our playing in a crappy conference. The BCS is its own club. It does not have to justify inclusions and exclusions. It is their party. If non-BCS schools want to be invited, then they have no choice....go undefeated.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

What I think will happen....coaches will be less likely to move BYU up at all from here as it becomes obvious that we really havent shown any worthiness to play in the NC game.

or simply because they want to reserve the title game spots for teams from their own conference.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

or simply because they want to reserve the title game spots for teams from their own conference.

Sure, either way.

Point is, if the non-BCS schools played a tougher schedule, would be a LOT tougher to leave them out.

But these conferences will never consistently be strong. That is why they are mid-major.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Sure, either way.

Point is, if the non-BCS schools played a tougher schedule, would be a LOT tougher to leave them out.

But these conferences will never consistently be strong. That is why they are mid-major.

Gimme a break. Teams don't have control of any portion of their schedule that includes the conference. The only portion which teams control, the nonconference, consistently shows non BCS to schedule more vigorously where possible than SEC. The wimpiest schedulers on the planet are SEC teams. Do you think you'd ever find them scheduling Big 12 or Pac 10 teams? Rarely. Tennessee got beat by UCLA!

Pac 10 teams will schedule tougher out of conference teams, and BYU, Utah, Fresno State and Boise State will as well. Bottom feeders such as USU also get scheduled.

But don't play the "schedule tougher" crap as the worst offenders are the ones considered the best programs. It should be about winning period, until the Sec and to a lesser extent other SEC schools schedule quality games, that song is out of tune.

Judge a school only by its nonconference games. And I'm pissed at Holmoe for what's upcoming.