Since it is boring and Jay Santos has his voice on this site....

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

You mean don't believe Pres Samuelson or my dad? Thanks for the scoop.

I don't know your dad, but I assume he wouldn't lie to you.

As for the president of BYU? How do you know a BYU coach, AD, VP, or president is lying when they're talking about the BYU football program? Their lips are moving.

Crowton goes 11-0 in 2004 even with Honor Code scandals and you think he gets fired? No way. Crowton has a losing record in 2004 again and no Honor Code scandals? You think he keeps his job? Not very likely.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I don't know your dad, but I assume he wouldn't lie to you.

As for the president of BYU? How do you know a BYU coach, AD, VP, or president is lying when they're talking about the BYU football program? Their lips are moving.

Crowton goes 11-0 in 2004 even with Honor Code scandals and you think he gets fired? No way. Crowton has a losing record in 2004 again and no Honor Code scandals? You think he keeps his job? Not very likely.

I think you simply underestimate the seriousness placed on those events by the Board of Trustees. Excuse me if I refuse to so glibly assume the President of BYU is so easily given to lie.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

After BYU had destroyed AFA and SDSU, they dropped 9 passes and allowed 7 sacks against UNM, missed 3 FGs and only scored 14 points. I can't prove anything beyond Lance Jr.'s claim, but it certainly looks fishy in light of Lance Jr.'s claim.

But as I said before, it was the HC scandals that sunk Crowton's boat, not the losses.

So Payne was part of the conspiracy? He threw a sweet pass for a TD on that fake field goal. He could've easily thrown a bad pass--would've been a much more self-serving way to lose a game instead of jeopardizing a potential NFL career.

Was Beck part of this conspiracy? He had a lousy game and couldn't get it done in the clutch when he had open WR's on multiple drives in the 4th quarter. Did you watch the game? I was there.

AFA and SDSU had D like Swiss cheese. UNM's D had been ripping people up all year.

I think you twist your stats and analysis purposefully to further your agenda, but I have respect for your intelligence. Buying into a crazy theory like this lowers your respectability.

Did you buy that crazy theory several of the regulars were floating at the end of 2002 where supposedly everyone on the team knew Schmidt was not the D coordinator except for Schmidt, and defensive players would fake look at Schmidt for the call and then look over his shoulder to Tidwell who was in the background slyly sending in the correct defensive call? That was funny one, too. But I always thought the intelligent portion of the Cougarboard crowd laughed this stuff off.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

I think you simply underestimate the seriousness placed on those events by the Board of Trustees. Excuse me if I refuse to so glibly assume the President of BYU is so easily given to lie.

It's not called lying nowadays, it's called PR spin. The answer does not equal the truth. The answer = whatever sounds best and puts us in the best light.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by jay santos

It's not called lying nowadays, it's called PR spin. The answer does not equal the truth. The answer = whatever sounds best and puts us in the best light.

My dad knows Pres. Samuelson well and interacts with him on a regular basis. There is no "spin" involved here.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by jay santos

So Payne was part of the conspiracy? He threw a sweet pass for a TD on that fake field goal. He could've easily thrown a bad pass--would've been a much more self-serving way to lose a game instead of jeopardizing a potential NFL career.

Was Beck part of this conspiracy? He had a lousy game and couldn't get it done in the clutch when he had open WR's on multiple drives in the 4th quarter. Did you watch the game? I was there.

AFA and SDSU had D like Swiss cheese. UNM's D had been ripping people up all year.

I think you twist your stats and analysis purposefully to further your agenda, but I have respect for your intelligence. Buying into a crazy theory like this lowers your respectability.

Did you buy that crazy theory several of the regulars were floating at the end of 2002 where supposedly everyone on the team knew Schmidt was not the D coordinator except for Schmidt, and defensive players would fake look at Schmidt for the call and then look over his shoulder to Tidwell who was in the background slyly sending in the correct defensive call? That was funny one, too. But I always thought the intelligent portion of the Cougarboard crowd laughed this stuff off.

Did I say I really believed that multiple players tanked the game? No. All I said is that Lance Jr. claimed he didn't play well to thwart Crowton and there were enough other things that happened in that game to wonder if others had done as well.

If BYU had scored 35 points, instead of having numerous drops, sacks and so forth, there wouldn't be any room for suspicion.

Suspicion <> Belief
Possibility <> High likelihood

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

My dad knows Pres. Samuelson well and interacts with him on a regular basis. There is no "spin" involved here.

So do you believe Crowton would have kept his job in 2004 had he not had the HC scandal?

Do you think the Board of Trustees might have been equally disgusted by the HC scandals had Crowton had a winning record and the support of the fan base?

Where was the Board of Trustees during Lavell's original GangBang party in the 90's?

Sorry I don't buy it.

I also know people who know people.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by jay santos

So do you believe Crowton would have kept his job in 2004 had he not had the HC scandal?

Do you think the Board of Trustees might have been equally disgusted by the HC scandals had Crowton had a winning record and the support of the fan base?

Where was the Board of Trustees during Lavell's original GangBang party in the 90's?

Sorry I don't buy it.

I also know people who know people.

The 90's gang bang was strictly a local story that was mostly buried. The internet was essentially a non-entity then.

In 2003/2004, there were two such events less than a year apart wich much, much more notoriety.

There was no trial in 1993. There was a trial with national notoriety in 2005.

And I don't care who you know. Whoever you know hasn't contradicted my information.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

The 90's gang bang was strictly a local story that was mostly buried. The internet was essentially a non-entity then.

In 2003/2004, there were two such events less than a year apart wich much, much more notoriety.

There was no trial in 1993. There was a trial with national notoriety in 2005.

And I don't care who you know. Whoever you know hasn't contradicted my information.

I'm genuinely interested in whether Samuelson said or implied that Crowton would have kept his job with the same record but not HC scandals.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I'm genuinely interested in whether Samuelson said or implied that Crowton would have kept his job with the same record but not HC scandals.

Said. Furthermore, this was independently backed up by a highly reliable source inside the program. But there's no need to reveal the who and where of that conversation since I already have the aforementioned information.