CougarMom post on Bronco

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by jay santos

In the same light, I also trust a non-LDS parent of one of the most solid guys on the team to have a valuable opinion.

Also, just so you know Rocky, my arrogant, self-righteous comment from last post was at your opinion not Bronco's. I don't think Bronco shares that level of hard-headedness with you.

It's okay. I expect that from you.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by jay santos

How could it not rub non-LDS the way Bronco is so open and aggressive about the faith? He needs to tone it down, and I think he will. I don't know if Goat is right that Bronco did all this intentionally and he doesn't mean any of it, he's just playing the right wing fan base. I think he probably meant it at the time. But he's in a new development phase. It's time to open the doors back to the non-LDS and focus on football not this hardass gospel thing.

I will not apologize for my religion. I do not think Bronco should iether.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by SteelBlue

It's always wise to listen regardless of numbers.

I don't disagree. However how much weight should that one voice carry ... not much in my opinion.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by tooblue

I will not apologize for my religion. I do not think Bronco should iether.

There certainly is a difference between being aggressive and potentially offensive about your religion and apologizing for your religion.

You have a perfect model with Lavell. Lavell never apologized for the religion but he wasn't offensive about it to the point of turning off non-LDS and luke warm LDS recruits.

[Archaea]

Isn't there a difference between living your religion and foisting it upon others?

It seems as if Bronco's as interpreted by Cheryl approach approximates more than a bit of foisting. Having a mentor so that a young baller doesn't break the rules is one thing, but having somebody judge another's spiritual progress is over-the-top, something that would offend me as a member.

I suppose it's a method of accountability, but let's not go too far.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by jay santos

There certainly is a difference between being aggressive and potentially offensive about your religion and apologizing for your religion.

You have a perfect model with Lavell. Lavell never apologized for the religion but he wasn't offensive about it to the point of turning off non-LDS and luke warm LDS recruits.

Here again is why she is disingenuous. She offers an opinion which is mostly speculation, and because of her closeness to the team may be viewed as absolute truth.

In response many posters assail Bronco's practices as over the top and potentially offensive. Such is a consequence of recklessly voicing her opinions ... that is why her son does not want her posting on message boards!

[UteStar]

I think it is a dangerous approach for Bronco to take for a couple of reasons:

Spiritual--what does this mean? I don't want a teammate to be figuring out how my spirituality is. I don't need him to write to the coach--"well, he missed church this week and he swore a few times. I'm concerned." That would bother me to have someone that would write about me every week. Strange.

Emotions--why get in that as well? Yeah, if the guy is suicidal, then sure...but most likely, what do you write about?

The spiritual watching bothers me and it is dangerous in my opinion to have teammates watching that on other teammates. I also think it would be a problem for those that are not members.

In regards to the recruits--I don't have any problem with a host to report that the recruit was drinking or that he hated the church or whatever.

Its easy to say that what Bronco is doing is working...but I think people need to look at the whole state of the program and see what he is doing and see if that is cause for future concern. I think that is valid and I think what he is doing will have to evolve over time or I do think it could become a bigger problem. Just my humble Ute thoughts.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by UteStar

I think it is a dangerous approach for Bronco to take for a couple of reasons:

Spiritual--what does this mean? I don't want a teammate to be figuring out how my spirituality is. I don't need him to write to the coach--"well, he missed church this week and he swore a few times. I'm concerned." That would bother me to have someone that would write about me every week. Strange.

Emotions--why get in that as well? Yeah, if the guy is suicidal, then sure...but most likely, what do you write about?

The spiritual watching bothers me and it is dangerous in my opinion to have teammates watching that on other teammates. I also think it would be a problem for those that are not members.

In regards to the recruits--I don't have any problem with a host to report that the recruit was drinking or that he hated the church or whatever.

Its easy to say that what Bronco is doing is working...but I think people need to look at the whole state of the program and see what he is doing and see if that is cause for future concern. I think that is valid and I think what he is doing will have to evolve over time or I do think it could become a bigger problem. Just my humble Ute thoughts.

My only question may be is your opinion that it is dangerous based more upon the media stories about how he is approaching recruiting etc. or is it based more upon the opinion of Cougarmom?

At this point becasue she voiced her opinion it is almost impossible to say, well that's how I feel based exclusively on the media stories.

Furthermore, how can it be dangerous until it is indeed proven dangerous -you can say potentially harmful but to out right qualify it as dangerous is overly dramatic?

I do think it is a curious practice that will require considerable discipline and sensitivity to manage. Time will be the judge of it's effectiveness.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by tooblue

Here again is why she is disingenuous. She offers an opinion which is mostly speculation, and because of her closeness to the team may be viewed as absolute truth.

In response many posters assail Bronco's practices as over the top and potentially offensive. Such is a consequence of recklessly voicing her opinions ... that is why her son does not want her posting on message boards!

I'm not going to address her opinion of the two policies she mentions. IMHO, I think they are just symbolic of a general uneasiness she feels about what I call an overly aggressive gospel approach Bronco has taken since he came in office. If you pushed me on the two policies, I'd probably agree with you. Fairly innocuous and/or good management of your players given the possible potential HC problems.

I don't find those two practices over-the-top, but I do find much of Bronco's style in general as over-the-top.

I don't consider her opinion speculation. I take her opinion as "I think Bronco's being over-the-top about religon".

[WaterCat]

Originally Posted by UteStar

I think it is a dangerous approach for Bronco to take for a couple of reasons:

Spiritual--what does this mean? I don't want a teammate to be figuring out how my spirituality is. I don't need him to write to the coach--"well, he missed church this week and he swore a few times. I'm concerned." That would bother me to have someone that would write about me every week. Strange.

Emotions--why get in that as well? Yeah, if the guy is suicidal, then sure...but most likely, what do you write about?

The spiritual watching bothers me and it is dangerous in my opinion to have teammates watching that on other teammates. I also think it would be a problem for those that are not members.

In regards to the recruits--I don't have any problem with a host to report that the recruit was drinking or that he hated the church or whatever.

Its easy to say that what Bronco is doing is working...but I think people need to look at the whole state of the program and see what he is doing and see if that is cause for future concern. I think that is valid and I think what he is doing will have to evolve over time or I do think it could become a bigger problem. Just my humble Ute thoughts.

I still see this as a way for Bronco to deal with problems internally. His intent is to help kids avoid run-ins with the honor code office, not to spy on them. I think we are also taking quotes from an LDS magazine a bit too literally. Why is bad for John Beck to look out for McKay Jacobsen? Take away the loaded religious words and this is just a buddy system where Senior classmen help an intimidating coach get to know the underclassmen and make sure they are adjusting to college life. Why is that dangerous? The problem is that Meridian really spun this article for the LDS crowd.

Is this heavy LDS spin on every aspect of the program? I don't know, I'm not that close to the program. Jay is arguing that it is over-the-top and permeates everything. Others see it as a way to appease the "mullahs."

I think that it is somewhere in the middle. Bronco has created an identity for the team. That identity draws on LDS themes but in the end he is trying to motivate these kids by using themes that he knows. I think it works because they resonate with most of his players, including religious non-LDS kids. I will grant that his style weeds out a certain contingent, but we never had much of a chance with that contingent in the first place.

So far it is working but it will take two or three more recruiting classes to see if he can continue to pick up the non-LDS recruits that he needs with this style of coaching and leadership. I don't see it as a big impediment.