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Indy Coug · 11-15-2006, 08:22 PM

Let's get something clear: the whole Bronco/religion thing was a direct PR response to the problems from the Crowton administration. Had the events of the previous two years not happened, then the Sons of Helaman and all that other stuff would never have been instituted by Bronco.

It was a savvy move by him to get the administration, alumni and Board of Trustees back on board with the football program.

I'm sure he believes it to an extent and has the players believing it to an extent, but I'm not sure its origins were truly all that altruistic.

jay santos · 11-15-2006, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Let's get something clear: the whole Bronco/religion thing was a direct PR response to the problems from the Crowton administration. Had the events of the previous two years not happened, then the Sons of Helaman and all that other stuff would never have been instituted by Bronco.

It was a savvy move by him to get the administration, alumni and Board of Trustees back on board with the football program.

I'm sure he believes it to an extent and has the players believing it to an extent, but I'm not sure its origins were truly all that altruistic.

This is the Goatnapper theorem. The last half of the Goatnapper theorem is that as soon as Bronco wrestles away control of the program from the admin and BOT, then he will loosen the reigns of the aggressive gospel approach and become more non-LDS and luke-warm LDS friendly. If this is true, Bronco's a genius. I was skeptical of Bronco's strategic ability, but after the 3-3-5 switch and other moves, I'm getting won over.

tooblue · 11-15-2006, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Let's get something clear: the whole Bronco/religion thing was a direct PR response to the problems from the Crowton administration. Had the events of the previous two years not happened, then the Sons of Helaman and all that other stuff would never have been instituted by Bronco.

It was a savvy move by him to get the administration, alumni and Board of Trustees back on board with the football program.

I'm sure he believes it to an extent and has the players believing it to an extent, but I'm not sure its origins were truly all that altruistic.

Watercat and Indy's opinions on the subject make the most sense to me!

jay santos · 11-15-2006, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooblue

Watercat and Indy's opinions on the subject make the most sense to me!

I probably missed other posts Indy made on the subject, but here in this thread he simply suggests that Bronco's gospel approach was born of environment of distrust by the admin, BOT, and program donors. It also suggests that this wouldn't have been Bronco's natural style, but one that he was kind of forced into.

Wouldn't this suggest to you that since non-football people are the one influencing this style, that it's highly probable that this style does not maximize the football program's potential and W-L record long term?

If non-LDS are complaining and Bronco has wrestled power away from Samuelsen and Eyring (I'll just say it, I know I'm going to hell anyway, might as well be direct), then now is the time to bring the football program back full circle into a return to glory Lavell style managed program with non-LDS and luke warm LDS having a full seat at the table.

tooblue · 11-15-2006, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

I probably missed other posts Indy made on the subject, but here in this thread he simply suggests that Bronco's gospel approach was born of environment of distrust by the admin, BOT, and program donors. It also suggests that this wouldn't have been Bronco's natural style, but one that he was kind of forced into.

Wouldn't this suggest to you that since non-football people are the one influencing this style, that it's highly probable that this style does not maximize the football program's potential and W-L record long term?

If non-LDS are complaining and Bronco has wrestled power away from Samuelsen and Eyring (I'll just say it, I know I'm going to hell anyway, might as well be direct), then now is the time to bring the football program back full circle into a return to glory Lavell style managed program with non-LDS and luke warm LDS having a full seat at the table.

The whole notion that he is being forced into something contradicts the fact that his system is innovative in it's approach with regards to managing the players and the program.

I think it is naive to believe he was forced -rather I suggest he IS a willing participant.

Furthermore, this notion that the program must some how recapture the magic of the Lavell years is fundamentally flawed. This program cannot recapture that era, we can't go back in time; no matter how much you or I or any one else wants to. This program can only go forward and forge it's own identity in this new era.

To be blunt I relish the idea of a new era and new identity ... while cherishing the memories of days gone by. It's time to move on!

The Colt · 11-21-2006, 09:08 PM

I was not a strong supporter of choosing Bronco to be the Head Coach. If the truth be known I was supporting Kyle Whittingham. I have changed my mind for some very important reasons. The program was in total disarray when Crowton got the ax. Crowton had lost control of the team and this comes from some of the players. There was two sets of rules and he applied them differently as he felt inclined. Ofa was a classic example. He was never disciplined for not attending class and missed numerous workouts. If a second string player did this they got a dose of strong discipline.

Bronco has clearly understood that the program was in danger of having the plug pulled. The pressure from the BOT in SLC was a lot more than a lot of people realize. I think he clearly understands what BYU is about and he has endeavored to recruit the type of athlete that will not only succeed at BYU, but will flourish.

Other posters have pointed out that BYU will never recruit a high number of non-LDS athletes, but the ones they do recruit have to understand the unique nature of BYU and the standards that they will have to adhere to while at BYU. I think Bronco's approach of getting this point across is the only way to make it work. Lets face facts, things were sliding down hill in this area during the last years of Lavell's tenure. Another major scandal in the football program will doom it to extinction.

I was never a big fan of Steve Cleveland but I did support how he brought the right type of players to BYU and his graduation rate was superb.

I am fully enthused about both football and basketball with Bronco and Dave Rose. I believe they both understand BYU and they will have long terms at BYU.

The other point on recruiting is that BYU has a distinct advantage over every other MWC school when it come to recruiting, especially in football. MWC schools do not get 5-Star and very few 4-Star recruits. They head to the bigger schools. Their bread and butter is the 3-Star athletes who end up being much better once they get to college. But BYU does get the occasional to recruit, the 5 and 4 Star when they are LDS. This is the advantage that BYU has. We need to capitalize on this and get the very best LDS athletes out there and I think the programs that Bronco and Rose are developing will accomplish this goal.

So if that means hearing a little emphasis on religion, then I can live with it.

Cali Coug · 11-21-2006, 10:08 PM

To me, the bottom line is this: If BYU keeps winning, he won't change a thing. If they start losing, he will.

You go with what works. Right now, the hardline gospel approach is working wonders. If it aint broke, don't fix it.

jay santos · 11-21-2006, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoyacoug

To me, the bottom line is this: If BYU keeps winning, he won't change a thing. If they start losing, he will.

You go with what works. Right now, the hardline gospel approach is working wonders. If it aint broke, don't fix it.

That's really short sighted, and I hope Bronco's not that short sighted.

What's working now is Beck, Harline, Brown, Kuresa, Jensen, Criddle, Robinson, etc.

You win with players. You get players by recruiting. If his recruiting is not maximized because of an unnecessary hardline gospel approach, then he needs to lose it.

RockyBalboa · 11-21-2006, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

That's really short sighted, and I hope Bronco's not that short sighted.

What's working now is Beck, Harline, Brown, Kuresa, Jensen, Criddle, Robinson, etc.

You win with players. You get players by recruiting. If his recruiting is not maximized because of an unnecessary hardline gospel approach, then he needs to lose it.

lol...and I'm sure Bronco will take your opinion of his near-sighted approach under advisement.

jay santos · 11-21-2006, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

lol...and I'm sure Bronco will take your opinion of his near-sighted approach under advisement.

Didn't say he was short-sighted. Reading comprehension, Rocky.

If he continues with the hardass gospel approach into the future, at the expense of maximizing the program talent level, then he will. I said I see the reason he had to do it at first. But the environment has changed and he now has the power.

11-21-2006, 09:08 PM	#46
The Colt Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3	Bronco and the Message I was not a strong supporter of choosing Bronco to be the Head Coach. If the truth be known I was supporting Kyle Whittingham. I have changed my mind for some very important reasons. The program was in total disarray when Crowton got the ax. Crowton had lost control of the team and this comes from some of the players. There was two sets of rules and he applied them differently as he felt inclined. Ofa was a classic example. He was never disciplined for not attending class and missed numerous workouts. If a second string player did this they got a dose of strong discipline. Bronco has clearly understood that the program was in danger of having the plug pulled. The pressure from the BOT in SLC was a lot more than a lot of people realize. I think he clearly understands what BYU is about and he has endeavored to recruit the type of athlete that will not only succeed at BYU, but will flourish. Other posters have pointed out that BYU will never recruit a high number of non-LDS athletes, but the ones they do recruit have to understand the unique nature of BYU and the standards that they will have to adhere to while at BYU. I think Bronco's approach of getting this point across is the only way to make it work. Lets face facts, things were sliding down hill in this area during the last years of Lavell's tenure. Another major scandal in the football program will doom it to extinction. I was never a big fan of Steve Cleveland but I did support how he brought the right type of players to BYU and his graduation rate was superb. I am fully enthused about both football and basketball with Bronco and Dave Rose. I believe they both understand BYU and they will have long terms at BYU. The other point on recruiting is that BYU has a distinct advantage over every other MWC school when it come to recruiting, especially in football. MWC schools do not get 5-Star and very few 4-Star recruits. They head to the bigger schools. Their bread and butter is the 3-Star athletes who end up being much better once they get to college. But BYU does get the occasional to recruit, the 5 and 4 Star when they are LDS. This is the advantage that BYU has. We need to capitalize on this and get the very best LDS athletes out there and I think the programs that Bronco and Rose are developing will accomplish this goal. So if that means hearing a little emphasis on religion, then I can live with it.

11-15-2006, 08:22 PM	#41
Indy Coug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Iraq and a hard place Posts: 7,569	Let's get something clear: the whole Bronco/religion thing was a direct PR response to the problems from the Crowton administration. Had the events of the previous two years not happened, then the Sons of Helaman and all that other stuff would never have been instituted by Bronco. It was a savvy move by him to get the administration, alumni and Board of Trustees back on board with the football program. I'm sure he believes it to an extent and has the players believing it to an extent, but I'm not sure its origins were truly all that altruistic.

11-21-2006, 10:08 PM	#47
Cali Coug Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 5,996	To me, the bottom line is this: If BYU keeps winning, he won't change a thing. If they start losing, he will. You go with what works. Right now, the hardline gospel approach is working wonders. If it aint broke, don't fix it.