I missed the game last night

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Probably at this point, given my old age, yes. Equal age? I don't think Jimmer would outquick me. He would out- everything else me however.

I play against a guy at work--he's about 5'7" and quick as hell. He has all kinds of moves that Jimmer does not have, and he shoots out to about 25 feet.

For example, this guy can drive full speed in two steps, then step back in one fluid motion and hit a 3. Sorry there ain't a guy on the whole BYU team with that move. (and no I can't guard it--I give him the drive and take away the 3).

You're kidding yourself if you think Jimmer is in some sort of quickness category beyond anything that's on the playground.

Good defensive strategy, dude.

[K-dog]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Probably at this point, given my old age, yes. Equal age? I don't think Jimmer would outquick me. He would out- everything else me however.

I play against a guy at work--he's about 5'7" and quick as hell. He has all kinds of moves that Jimmer does not have, and he shoots out to about 25 feet.

For example, this guy can drive full speed in two steps, then step back in one fluid motion and hit a 3. Sorry there ain't a guy on the whole BYU team with that move. (and no I can't guard it--I give him the drive and take away the 3).

You're kidding yourself if you think Jimmer is in some sort of quickness category beyond anything that's on the playground.

I agree with you that Jimmer is not quick. What he is instead of quick is under control at nearly full speed. He seems to be able to shoot, pass, dribble etc. at close to his full speed. Although that isn't particularly fast, it is fast to be able do those things and, as a result, allows him to get his shot off.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

Good defensive strategy, dude.

I didn't give you my full strategy. He's also hard to guard because all his shots are jump shots, so that negates some of my height advantage.

He is left-handed. So I overplay his left-hand and give him the lane. Since I am on his left side, I have a great angle for the shot-block on the left handed jumper. he can dribble just fine with the right hand, so basically I am challenging to drive, and finish with his right hand. Also, I have a big man to help me out when he drives. It also helps that he usually has teammates who aren't great at finishing in the lane if he dumps off.

But even this isnt' completely effective, because he is so stong. He's built like a mule, and a little forearm goes a long way and he can sometimes still get the jumpshot up.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Probably at this point, given my old age, yes. Equal age? I don't think Jimmer would outquick me. He would out- everything else me however.

I play against a guy at work--he's about 5'7" and quick as hell. He has all kinds of moves that Jimmer does not have, and he shoots out to about 25 feet.

For example, this guy can drive full speed in two steps, then step back in one fluid motion and hit a 3. Sorry there ain't a guy on the whole BYU team with that move. (and no I can't guard it--I give him the drive and take away the 3).

You're kidding yourself if you think Jimmer is in some sort of quickness category beyond anything that's on the playground.

I used to play with a bunch of guys in the mornings. I am no good, but some of these guys seemed awfully good to me. Young, quick, and strong. One day a former BYU player started playing with us. His name was Jared Miller - a big forward that played in the early 90's. He played in Europe professionally for six years. Anyway, he came in and made everyone look silly. When he played at full capacity (he coasted a lot to be nice), he could destroy everyone. I had the honor of catching one of his elbows right in the eye. I had a glorious shiner for a couple of weeks.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I didn't give you my full strategy. He's also hard to guard because all his shots are jump shots, so that negates some of my height advantage.

He is left-handed. So I overplay his left-hand and give him the lane. Since I am on his left side, I have a great angle for the shot-block on the left handed jumper. he can dribble just fine with the right hand, so basically I am challenging to drive, and finish with his right hand. Also, I have a big man to help me out when he drives. It also helps that he usually has teammates who aren't great at finishing in the lane if he dumps off.

But even this isnt' completely effective, because he is so stong. He's built like a mule, and a little forearm goes a long way and he can sometimes still get the jumpshot up.

When I played high school hoops I was completely unable to score. No freaking joke, I was more useless than John Ameche on the set of the HBO series "Cathouse." However, I saw significant minutes because I was more than willing to d it up like a mutha. For my conference I had above average quickness and really focussed on learning the fundamentals of good defense. Reaching with the right hand, clamping down physically once a player gives up the dribble, and a strong defensive stance. It also is key to win the hearts of referrees by playing with total effort and reckless abandon. In a high school game if you come up with a few loose balls, it is amazing how much bumping you can get away with if it is not your hands doing the bumping. The other key was the ultra hard box out to the crotch region on jump shots even 18 feet from the hoop. Once the shot is gone, no ref is watching and you can do anything you want as long as the kid doesn't fall to the floor. Force most kids baseline on left side if they are righthanded and if on the right side force baseline but periodically cut it off to force back middle. It helped that we played help side man to man where you only denied the pass if your man was directly in a passing lane, so when the ball was on the perimeter we always had two help defenders in the lane.

I would love it when someone would get hot and the coach would call for the Goat and look me in my steely eyes and say "get in his shorts." It was always mission accomplished...save the time we played Artesia High and some kid named O'Bannon went middle, around the back to the baseline and dunked over the help side defender. I gave him one of those "what can I do about that?" looks, and he understood.

He later became both Bobik and Jordan Cameron's high school coach. The ratt bastard never liked the BYU. When I was vaccalating between BYU and West Point his comment was "why would you want to go to a school where they only teach you how to pour milk?"

Funny, it was plebe knowledge at West Point where I learned:

Upperclass: "Hey smacks, hows the cow?"
Plebe: "Sir, she walks, she talks she is full of chalk. The lacteal fluid is highly prolific to the nth degree!"

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I used to play with a bunch of guys in the mornings. I am no good, but some of these guys seemed awfully good to me. Young, quick, and strong. One day a former BYU player started playing with us. His name was Jared Miller - a big forward that played in the early 90's. He played in Europe professionally for six years. Anyway, he came in and made everyone look silly. When he played at full capacity (he coasted a lot to be nice), he could destroy everyone. I had the honor of catching one of his elbows right in the eye. I had a glorious shiner for a couple of weeks.

We had a guy that came and played last week. It had been a while since he last played with us. 6'6" black dude, wiry, quickest, most explosive guy on the court. When he hit a pull up 3 I knew we were in trouble.

Turns out that he played for Manhattan college, and guarded Carmello in the tourney. He said that Mello schooled him. This guy was 10 times more talented than most of us, and Mello is 10 times more talented than him.

Btw, Jimmer won't play in the NBA.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I used to play with a bunch of guys in the mornings. I am no good, but some of these guys seemed awfully good to me. Young, quick, and strong. One day a former BYU player started playing with us. His name was Jared Miller - a big forward that played in the early 90's. He played in Europe professionally for six years. Anyway, he came in and made everyone look silly. When he played at full capacity (he coasted a lot to be nice), he could destroy everyone. I had the honor of catching one of his elbows right in the eye. I had a glorious shiner for a couple of weeks.

I am sure Mike knows that Jimmer would make him look silly. Jimmer was the MVP of some Bronx Jam 3-3 tourney and I am sure Mike is aware that a bunch of doctors at Baylor University don't got a thing on the boys from NY. Jimmer might not confuse us with Marty Haws, but he ain't no Nate Cooper either. I think he will be a big cog for BYU for 3 years. Since Mike takes Rose's side concerning my desire for more minutes for Miles, I am sure his sunshine pumping soul will take Rose's side when the man makes Jimmer one of his go to guys starting next year.

[MikeWaters]

I want to try and guard Dan Dickau as well. Dan, I am fairly certain, is 20x the player that Jimmer will ever be.

I have no doubt that Dickau can mop the floor with my game. But given that Farrah is friend's with Dickau's sister, I figure maybe someday after DD is retired, just maybe, just maybe, I can play in a pickup game with him.

[cougjunkie]

Mike if you and Jimmer played one on one to 21, I would be very surprised if you scored even three points on him. I would also be very surprised if you were able to guard him at all. He may not be very quick for a D-1 basketball player but he is a hell of a lot quicker than some guy that has never played organized ball in his life.

Jimmer is going to be a solid player for BYU, will he ever be a star? I am not sure but he has great hands, and he knows his role.

I am not sure if you watched the Lamar game but he crossed up this guy and made him look absolutely silly the guy actually fell over, and Jimmer pulled up for a jumper that looked very fluid, the shot did rim out.

The last player on BYUs bench is better than anybody on this board and its not even close. I played Cityleague in Provo in the Open division that has several former college players (Danny Brotherson, Eric Neilson, Matt Montague) those guys dominate, even my buddy that played JC ball is night and day different than any one else on teh court.

[smokymountainrain]

Some of you might remember Fred House of SUU.

I was playing some pick up ball at SLCC about 6-7 years ago and it turned out Fred House was one of the other guys on the team.

I wasn't a very well-rounded basketball player, but I could score. More of a scorer than a shooter, but when I got hot, I was nearly impossible to stop - or so I thought until that day. During this game, the opposing team was playing zone on us and I got hot. I scored about 9 straight points (going by one - threes worth two) including 4 straight three pointers. So House decides to play a little box in one with him taking me man to man. As a basketball player, I always prided myself on my ability to get a shot off whenever I wanted - I could score in a variety of ways, with both hands and had good range. Well, in about a 15 minute stretch, when House had me one on one, if I was lucky enough to get open enough to even touch the ball, I never came close to even getting a shot off - let alone make a damn basket. I was a beaten man. I'd been humbled.

I learned that day that D-1 athletes are on a different level than the rest of us.

I played pick up once with Byron Wilson of the U as well - he was amazing.