Funk and tourney success

[jay santos]

For the record, this thing where Funk and other Ute fans harp on the tourney success thing as the only important criteria in evaluating a team, program, coach, player, whatever is really really stupid and overstated.

Yeah, we get it. BYU has not had good tourney success lately. Utah has. It doesn't take away the importance of other measures such as overall record, head to head record, conference championships, national rankings.

Success in the tourney may be the most important of all those, but because it's a one game situation, there is a lot of randomness involved. Roy Williams looked like a bad coach for years because of tourney failures. Now he's an expert. I'd say the reason for the change is due more to luck and randomness than anything else.

Weber State obviously has not had a better program/players/coaches/teams, etc over the past 20 years than BYU, but they've had more tourney success.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by jay santos

For the record, this thing where Funk and other Ute fans harp on the tourney success thing as the only important criteria in evaluating a team, program, coach, player, whatever is really really stupid and overstated.

Yeah, we get it. BYU has not had good tourney success lately. Utah has. It doesn't take away the importance of other measures such as overall record, head to head record, conference championships, national rankings.

Success in the tourney may be the most important of all those, but because it's a one game situation, there is a lot of randomness involved. Roy Williams looked like a bad coach for years because of tourney failures. Now he's an expert. I'd say the reason for the change is due more to luck and randomness than anything else.

Weber State obviously has not had a better program/players/coaches/teams, etc over the past 20 years than BYU, but they've had more tourney success.

It's amazing how much mileage you can get out of one game (Weber vs UNC), compared to the 300 games since then.

[Spaz]

The same issue exists in Football.

Yes, BYU has a poor bowl record. The sad thing is, those who like to run that smack are ignoring the facts...BYU has consistently faced superior teams in their bowl losses, as opposed to facing teams you should be ashamed of losing to...

[il Padrino Ute]

When all is said and done, will a team be remembered for what it did during the regular season or the post season, be it football or basketball?

[Detroitdad]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

When all is said and done, will a team be remembered for what it did during the regular season or the post season, be it football or basketball?

I would say it is a mixed bag. Teams that win a championship are remembered for the post season, for the rest they are mostly remembered only by their own fans, and then generally for their season.

[mpfunk]

Originally Posted by jay santos

For the record, this thing where Funk and other Ute fans harp on the tourney success thing as the only important criteria in evaluating a team, program, coach, player, whatever is really really stupid and overstated.

Yeah, we get it. BYU has not had good tourney success lately. Utah has. It doesn't take away the importance of other measures such as overall record, head to head record, conference championships, national rankings.

Success in the tourney may be the most important of all those, but because it's a one game situation, there is a lot of randomness involved. Roy Williams looked like a bad coach for years because of tourney failures. Now he's an expert. I'd say the reason for the change is due more to luck and randomness than anything else.

Weber State obviously has not had a better program/players/coaches/teams, etc over the past 20 years than BYU, but they've had more tourney success.

Success in the NCAA tournament is the most important factor, but not the only factor. Conference championships are also important, but not as important as NCAA tournament wins. UNLV last year had a better season than BYU.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

When all is said and done, will a team be remembered for what it did during the regular season or the post season, be it football or basketball?

Seasons are defined by memorable wins, especially but not always limited to closing wins. Recent cases-in-point: I barely remember the year 2000 (football) for the mediocre season it was. What stands out for me most was a "Don't Muff It" home win over New Mexico, followed by the Miracle for Lavell. Another: 2001 had a dismally disappointing ending (I still remember switching off the Hawaii game in disgust), but included many exciting games that still make it a memorable season. This, as opposed to 1999, which was a relatively decent season, marred by a horrible ending (including visible team disunity).

For me at least, it's hard to boil a single season, football or basketball, down to one game.

[UtahDan]

There is no question in my mind that, fair or not, teams are defined by the biggest games on the biggest stages.

The Patriot's season this year is defined by a single loss. For all the wins the Buffalo Bills had over their great stretch, they are defined by Superbowl defeats rather than AFC championships.

As stated above, the Roy Williams Kansas teams are defined by their failure to come up big in the biggest games.

I do see a difference between schools with a national presence and MWC teams. This is no dig at BYU. Any time a MWC team makes the sweet 16 that is a major accomplishment and something that will be remembered. MWC championships are nice, but nothing to write home about. The MWC just isn't that good in any sport in any year. You have to win in the MWC and then also win on a national stage.

I don't think you want to overstate Utah's success here, particularly the bowl games because a lot of them came against lesser teams. On the other hand, while I do understand BYU fans' desire to emphasize the positive, the truth is that only BYU fans remember conference championships. Everywhere else in the country you are define by your post season performance.

I'm not saying that the post season ought to matter more to BYU fans, I'm speaking purely from the standpoint of nation perception. Maybe that doesn't/shouldn't matter.

[livecoug]

Nobody remembers A win at the tourny. More important is record and ending ranking.

[SteelBlue]

I agree that Tourney Wins trump most everything else in bball. But bowl wins in football are nowhere near the same animal. Unless you win the national championship in football, nobody really gives a crap about your bowl win by the next year. There are a few exceptions (Boise St) but not many.