BYU most dominant MWC program over ten years - Page 2 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

mpfunk · 10-14-2008, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Funk doesn't point out BYU's failure in the tournament because he is ignorant of the regular season or because he's blinded by Utah's success in the tournament. He does it because he knows it pisses you off.

I agree with you that 10 years is a very solid measuring stick for regular season success and I didn't realize BYU had been so consistent. That is impressive.

But the bottom line is that none of that matters, because teams are remembered for what happens in the Big Dance. For example, I have a neighbor who loves to pointout that in '99, the Utes were knocked out in the 2nd round by Miami (Ohio). He is giddy when he reminds me that that Utah team had 3 of the 5 starters from the Final Four team from the previous year. It bugs him that I agree that the Utes choked that year, because the tournament is what matters in college basketball.

My point? That was the year the Utes went undefeated in conference play and also won the conference tournament. Complete domination of conference play isn't what folks remember.

Great example. The 1999 team was the best team that Majerus ever had at Utah. That team wins 7 out of 10 games against the 1998 team that went to the Final Four. However, the 1998 team will always be seen as the best Ute team because of their tournament success.

mpfunk · 10-14-2008, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

Your measure of success isn't a little arbitrary?

Here's my new metric: Final Four appearances * 5 + conference championships. Now tell me who's #1 in the conference over last ten years. Argue why that's any less relevant than tourney wins.

Really there are two factors that you should look at in evaluating the top team in the conference, tournament wins and conference championships. I think you need to give a lot stronger weight to the tournament wins. I think the 1998 Utah vs 1999 Utah is a great example of why the tournament wins matter most. Talk to a fan of any major college basketball program and they will always talk about tourny wins first and foremost. People remember tournament upsets or great tournament performances, but they don't remember who won their conference.

I would rank the MWC as follows over the past 10-years:

1) Utah (4 tournament wins, 6 tournament appearances, 4 championships)
2) BYU (0 tournament wins, 5 tournament appearances, 4 championships)
3) UNLV (3 tournament wins, 3 tournament apperances, 1 championship)

BYU and UNLV are very close and if not for the fewer tournament appearances, UNLV should be ahead of BYU.

cougjunkie · 10-14-2008, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Gino Torreta won a Heisman.

So did Jason White and Andre Ware.

Heisman has lost its luster.

il Padrino Ute · 10-14-2008, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cougjunkie

So did Jason White and Andre Ware.

Heisman has lost its luster.

Add Charlie Ward to that list too.

Yes it has. It's still something nice to claim, but it's not what it used to be.

cougjunkie · 10-14-2008, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Add Charlie Ward to that list too.

Yes it has. It's still something nice to claim, but it's not what it used to be.

How can we forget Eric Crouch?

Spaz · 10-14-2008, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpfunk

Really there are two factors that you should look at in evaluating the top team in the conference, tournament wins and conference championships. I think you need to give a lot stronger weight to the tournament wins. I think the 1998 Utah vs 1999 Utah is a great example of why the tournament wins matter most. Talk to a fan of any major college basketball program and they will always talk about tourny wins first and foremost. People remember tournament upsets or great tournament performances, but they don't remember who won their conference.

I would rank the MWC as follows over the past 10-years:

1) Utah (4 tournament wins, 6 tournament appearances, 4 championships)
2) BYU (0 tournament wins, 5 tournament appearances, 4 championships)
3) UNLV (3 tournament wins, 3 tournament apperances, 1 championship)

BYU and UNLV are very close and if not for the fewer tournament appearances, UNLV should be ahead of BYU.

Personally, I remember conference championships very well.

I couldn't tell you who won the ACC over the last 10 years, but then I'm not a fan of a team in the ACC. I COULD tell you who won the MWC over the last 10 years. I couldn't tell you what years the other teams in the MWC did what in the NCAA tourney (outside the last two years & BYU).

That COULD be a result of BYU's lack of NCAA success. On the other hand, it could be demonstrative of the weakness of your argument.

il Padrino Ute · 10-14-2008, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cougjunkie

How can we forget Eric Crouch?

Or Carson Palmer? Or Chris Weinke?

The list goes on.....

8ballrollin · 10-14-2008, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpfunk

Really there are two factors that you should look at in evaluating the top team in the conference, tournament wins and conference championships. I think you need to give a lot stronger weight to the tournament wins. I think the 1998 Utah vs 1999 Utah is a great example of why the tournament wins matter most. Talk to a fan of any major college basketball program and they will always talk about tourny wins first and foremost. People remember tournament upsets or great tournament performances, but they don't remember who won their conference.

I would rank the MWC as follows over the past 10-years:

1) Utah (4 tournament wins, 6 tournament appearances, 4 championships)
2) BYU (0 tournament wins, 5 tournament appearances, 4 championships)
3) UNLV (3 tournament wins, 3 tournament apperances, 1 championship)

BYU and UNLV are very close and if not for the fewer tournament appearances, UNLV should be ahead of BYU.

MP just pwnd this thread.

Go ahead and put the lock on it now.