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Old 10-14-2008, 08:49 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
Who had a better season the past two years, UNLV or BYU? Which team is regarded nationally as the better team the past two years? I think it is clear the answer to both is UNLV.
I remembered UNLV had the tourney run two years ago but had to look up to see what they did last year. If I'm a MWC fan and can't remember, is it really relevant?

Second place in conference, win first round and lose second round vs Conf championship, loss first round

That's pretty much a wash for me as far as declaring who was more successful. Of course as a Cougar fan at this point I'd trade a conference win for a championship just because of our situation of not having one for a long time. UNLV might prefer the conf championship over a one and done tourney.

I certainly agree UNLV's season two years ago was more successful. A deep tourney run is significant.
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:19 PM   #32
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You're getting off focus. Nobody will forget Bryce Drew and Valpo. But no one will mention Valpo as a good basketball program or team or that they had that good of a team for even that one year.
I believe that is the point funk is trying to make. Folks remember Valpo because of the tournament, not the regular season.

The regular season serves only one purpose - to get the best seeding possible in the tournament. Conference championships are nice, but in the end, mean little in the context of the entire basketball season.
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:34 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
You will remember it but no one outside of BYU will remember it. College hoop fans still remember names like Bryce Drew, Harold "the Show" Arcenaux, and Stephen Curry.
You make it sound like the ACC fans who don't know anything about the MWC are the final judges of basketball success. I disagree - they don't know enough about MWC basketball to form opinions I have any respect for.

Perhaps my opinion is skewed because I'm not a huge college basketball fan. I don't pay that much attention to teams outside the MWC. I don't watch that many games.

On the other hand, perhaps I represent a larger portion of the college basketball fanbase than you do. It's possible that you follow college basketball as a whole far more than the average fan does. Therefore, it's possible that your opinion is inherently skewed.
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:34 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute View Post
I believe that is the point funk is trying to make. Folks remember Valpo because of the tournament, not the regular season.

The regular season serves only one purpose - to get the best seeding possible in the tournament. Conference championships are nice, but in the end, mean little in the context of the entire basketball season.
But obviously no one in America would say over the past 10 years Valpo has been more dominant than BYU or even Valpo has been more successful.

So in terms of evaluating success, total tourney wins must not be the key factor.
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Old 10-14-2008, 10:13 PM   #35
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But obviously no one in America would say over the past 10 years Valpo has been more dominant than BYU or even Valpo has been more successful.

So in terms of evaluating success, total tourney wins must not be the key factor.
If we're going to compare Valpo to BYU, you could be correct, though if we asked folks around the country what they remember about BYU and Valpo in the last 10 years, I'd guess most would bring up Drew's buzzer beater.

Again, conference championships are a good thing. It tells me that BYU has been consistent over the last 10 years during the regular season. But if a team wants national attention, it has to win tournament games.
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Old 10-14-2008, 10:17 PM   #36
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If we're going to compare Valpo to BYU, you could be correct, though if we asked folks around the country what they remember about BYU and Valpo in the last 10 years, I'd guess most would bring up Drew's buzzer beater.

Again, conference championships are a good thing. It tells me that BYU has been consistent over the last 10 years during the regular season. But if a team wants national attention, it has to win tournament games.
Case closed.

Tourney wins are good barometer for who is more memorable.

Tourney wins are a bad barometer, used exclusively, to determine who is the most successful, dominant, better program over a time period.

Utah might be more memorable over the past ten years. I'll give funk that.
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Old 10-14-2008, 10:26 PM   #37
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Case closed.

Tourney wins are good barometer for who is more memorable.

Tourney wins are a bad barometer, used exclusively, to determine who is the most successful, dominant, better program over a time period.

Utah might be more memorable over the past ten years. I'll give funk that.
I can do the Animal Farm doublethink here:

On one hand, consistency in the long term give us an idea about the state of a program. On the other, it doesn't do a program any good to have solid regular seasons, but tank in the tournament.

You're both right.
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:26 AM   #38
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I can do the Animal Farm doublethink here:

On one hand, consistency in the long term give us an idea about the state of a program. On the other, it doesn't do a program any good to have solid regular seasons, but tank in the tournament.

You're both right.
True.

Therefore, over the past 10 years when ranked against the rest of the country you're probably talking about three teams in BYU, Utah, and UNLV that aren't in the top 40. It's silly for either of us to beat our chest that we're #42 compared to your #45.
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:52 AM   #39
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I think our win over UTEP in the CBI last year gives us the definitive edge over the last ten years.
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:58 AM   #40
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As a fan of team that has done both (win conference and advance in the tourney), tournament wins mean much more. But that's just me.

When I think of great BYU teams, I think of the deep run by Ainge et. al.
Rose's teams: Eh, can't get it done.
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