Prophecy of the abyss and Ute defenders of the faith - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Archaea · 04-11-2011, 02:01 PM

http://www.cougarboard.com/board/message.html?id=303345

Those who defended the faith that Utah would never fall into the abyss, were Utefan, Utebear, Il Paddy, U-Ute, LA Ute, Tex Ute, and the ineffable TopUte.

Just a few years before the collapse.

What the Utah collapse shows me is that no program is ordained to be good, you have to work at it, and make good strategic choices. Utah faces the problem of having no inherent recruiting base, so it needs a strong coach.

UCLA's bouncing around also shows at the high end, that no program will remain good if administration makes bad choices. I don't believe Utah will remain this bad but I don't see evidence it will inevitably rise to greatness in the near future either.

MikeWaters · 04-11-2011, 04:08 PM

Has Majerus had any modicum of success at St. Louis? I'm too lazy to check, but I don't think so.

Utah has now had 2 failed coaches, and even more distressing to Utah fans I would think, have hired a 3rd guy that inspires no confidence. NOBODY in the country was going after this guy.

But who cares. Different conference, different lives.

ute4ever · 04-11-2011, 04:30 PM

It's true that hoops looks to be lean for a few more years, but could the new Pac-12 television deal be the saving grace? It now appears to be in the $220 million ballpark, which will come out to $18.3 mil per team annually. (That's larger than the SEC's $200 million deal, but what do you expect when comparing Los Angeles and Phoenix to Birmingham and Baton Rouge). Plus the conference has equal revenue sharing on merchandise, which will give every school another $2.5 million.

My point is this: after a few more seasons of .500 ball (if that), the U can pay some debts, and then *finally* be able to shell out $4 mil on a decent coach.

Archaea · 04-11-2011, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ute4ever

It's true that hoops looks to be lean for a few more years, but could the new Pac-12 television deal be the saving grace? It now appears to be in the $220 million ballpark, which will come out to $18.3 mil per team annually. (That's larger than the SEC's $200 million deal, but what do you expect when comparing Los Angeles and Phoenix to Birmingham and Baton Rouge). Plus the conference has equal revenue sharing on merchandise, which will give every school another $2.5 million.

My point is this: after a few more seasons of .500 ball (if that), the U can pay some debts, and then *finally* be able to shell out $4 mil on a decent coach.

It is shelling out money for the right coach.

Utah doesn't seem to have the magic touch in Hill any more. He struck gold in Majerus and UM, but since then he's not done too well.

It seems as if Utah is better equipped to be a football school as opposed to a basketball school. Being in the PAC 12 hasn't done wonders for Washington State basketball.

Coaching and recruiting base is more important than conference affiliation in basketball. In football, it sure helps but I've not seen evidence it matters as much in basketball.

MikeWaters · 04-11-2011, 05:36 PM

Recruiting is HUGE in basketball, when you are only recruiting 3 guys a year. If you don't strike gold with your 2-4 recruits, year after year, you are in trouble. Like Boylen. Who was so desperate, he went after a bunch of JCs.

Isn't the theory that Majerus couldn't recruit LDS kids anymore after Judkins left?

Archaea · 04-11-2011, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Recruiting is HUGE in basketball, when you are only recruiting 3 guys a year. If you don't strike gold with your 2-4 recruits, year after year, you are in trouble. Like Boylen. Who was so desperate, he went after a bunch of JCs.

Isn't the theory that Majerus couldn't recruit LDS kids anymore after Judkins left?

Recruiting is vital, and Majerus was a diamond in the rough locator. Schools such as Utah need that capacity to thrive or even survive. I actually like JJ Obrien and Clyburn but believe their team was badly organized. It did not maximize this year's talent.

ute4ever · 04-11-2011, 06:14 PM

To answer your earlier comment about Majerus, he's not doing so well at St. Louis, but what can you expect in a small name program? Suppose one of the biggest names in coaching left Duke or wherever and took over at Snow College; he simply would not work any magic there because he's not going to recruit the players. At Utah, he never landed the North Carolina or Kentucky type recruits but he held his own with the Arizona and UCLA leftovers, and had enough coaching talent to make it work. Not possible with St. Louis.

I do know this: Majerus would love to come back to Utah but Chris Hill won't even entertain the idea. Many coaches leave but later return (i.e. Phil Jackson in 2004), but the Majerus-Hill bridge was burned to the point that it simply won't happen.

For now we just have our countdown to $2013$.

Archaea · 04-11-2011, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ute4ever

To answer your earlier comment about Majerus, he's not doing so well at St. Louis, but what can you expect in a small name program? Suppose one of the biggest names in coaching left Duke or wherever and took over at Snow College; he simply would not work any magic there because he's not going to recruit the players. At Utah, he never landed the North Carolina or Kentucky type recruits but he held his own with the Arizona and UCLA leftovers, and had enough coaching talent to make it work. Not possible with St. Louis.

I do know this: Majerus would love to come back to Utah but Chris Hill won't even entertain the idea. Many coaches leave but later return (i.e. Phil Jackson in 2004), but the Majerus-Hill bridge was burned to the point that it simply won't happen.

For now we just have our countdown to $2013$.

I am starting to believe Majerus wasn't the problem but Hill. If UKryst crashes and burns, then Hill should be fired.

MikeWaters · 04-11-2011, 07:44 PM

St. Louis in the A-10 with Richmond, Temple, and Xavier. If those schools can have success, why can't St. Louis?

ute4ever · 04-11-2011, 08:05 PM

Suppose you're being recruited by Temple, Xavier, Richmond, and St. Louis. Who would you rank from first to last? "Come join the Billikens, and see how exciting it is to play in the NIT. Maybe even twice."

I really don't know what convinced Maji to land that job. The BBQ, perhaps?

04-11-2011, 02:01 PM	#1
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	Prophecy of the abyss and Ute defenders of the faith http://www.cougarboard.com/board/message.html?id=303345 Those who defended the faith that Utah would never fall into the abyss, were Utefan, Utebear, Il Paddy, U-Ute, LA Ute, Tex Ute, and the ineffable TopUte. Just a few years before the collapse. What the Utah collapse shows me is that no program is ordained to be good, you have to work at it, and make good strategic choices. Utah faces the problem of having no inherent recruiting base, so it needs a strong coach. UCLA's bouncing around also shows at the high end, that no program will remain good if administration makes bad choices. I don't believe Utah will remain this bad but I don't see evidence it will inevitably rise to greatness in the near future either. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα Last edited by Archaea; 04-11-2011 at 02:08 PM.

04-11-2011, 04:08 PM	#2
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Has Majerus had any modicum of success at St. Louis? I'm too lazy to check, but I don't think so. Utah has now had 2 failed coaches, and even more distressing to Utah fans I would think, have hired a 3rd guy that inspires no confidence. NOBODY in the country was going after this guy. But who cares. Different conference, different lives.

04-11-2011, 04:30 PM	#3
ute4ever I must not tell lies Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,103	It's true that hoops looks to be lean for a few more years, but could the new Pac-12 television deal be the saving grace? It now appears to be in the $220 million ballpark, which will come out to $18.3 mil per team annually. (That's larger than the SEC's $200 million deal, but what do you expect when comparing Los Angeles and Phoenix to Birmingham and Baton Rouge). Plus the conference has equal revenue sharing on merchandise, which will give every school another $2.5 million. My point is this: after a few more seasons of .500 ball (if that), the U can pay some debts, and then finally be able to shell out $4 mil on a decent coach.

04-11-2011, 05:36 PM	#5
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Recruiting is HUGE in basketball, when you are only recruiting 3 guys a year. If you don't strike gold with your 2-4 recruits, year after year, you are in trouble. Like Boylen. Who was so desperate, he went after a bunch of JCs. Isn't the theory that Majerus couldn't recruit LDS kids anymore after Judkins left?

04-11-2011, 06:14 PM	#7
ute4ever I must not tell lies Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,103	To answer your earlier comment about Majerus, he's not doing so well at St. Louis, but what can you expect in a small name program? Suppose one of the biggest names in coaching left Duke or wherever and took over at Snow College; he simply would not work any magic there because he's not going to recruit the players. At Utah, he never landed the North Carolina or Kentucky type recruits but he held his own with the Arizona and UCLA leftovers, and had enough coaching talent to make it work. Not possible with St. Louis. I do know this: Majerus would love to come back to Utah but Chris Hill won't even entertain the idea. Many coaches leave but later return (i.e. Phil Jackson in 2004), but the Majerus-Hill bridge was burned to the point that it simply won't happen. For now we just have our countdown to $2013$.

04-11-2011, 07:44 PM	#9
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	St. Louis in the A-10 with Richmond, Temple, and Xavier. If those schools can have success, why can't St. Louis?

04-11-2011, 08:05 PM	#10
ute4ever I must not tell lies Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,103	Suppose you're being recruited by Temple, Xavier, Richmond, and St. Louis. Who would you rank from first to last? "Come join the Billikens, and see how exciting it is to play in the NIT. Maybe even twice." I really don't know what convinced Maji to land that job. The BBQ, perhaps?