Goat come talk BB here

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by jay santos

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=2464430

I agree this team is playing great. We've had four pretty good teams this decade:

2000: Wesley, Lyday, Whiting
2003: Hansen, Haffa, Bigs
2004: Haffa, Bigs, Hall

Of those I'd put the 2004 team as the best with this team playing equal to that level right now.

All three of those teams could have won an NCAA game, and it's very frustrating that none did--going up against three really good teams: Cincy, UCONN, and Syracuse.

Any of those teams--especially the 2003, 2004 teams had what it takes to make a Sweet 16 run.

With the RPI situation, I believe this team is a lock to make the NCAA. And I believe with the way they are playing, we have at least a 50-50 chance to win a 1st round game and if luck finally goes our way finally deeper.

This team is playing very well. The difference between the first 10 games and the last 10 games is significant.

If I were to rate the teams, I would rate this team as the best. The 2003 team, Hansen's senior year, would be #2. 2004 #3 and 2001 #4. This team is doing pretty well in a MWC that is the best it has ever been, that is why I rate this team as the top BYU team in recent memory. That 2003 club did win 5 MWC road games, but other than Utah and UNLV ever MWC team would be a bottom tier club in the MWC this year. The Y lost to the only two decent road teams it played. It also lost a home game. I think this BYU team would have gone 13-1 in that MWC.

This team is really playing well and improving. I think BYU might just be the best team in the MWC but I will wait until after the WYO game to make such a bold declaration. Dave Rose appears to be an upgrade to Cleveland and he is building a core that should make BYU pretty good for the next few years.

The early season losses could still be an achiles heel with regard to seeding, but BYU has a chance to win its way out of that hole if it can finish the season in style. By style I mean only one more loss in conference play. I think the most likely scenario is 12-4 in conference play and then losing to UNLV in the MWC championship. I think if BYU goes 12-4 and then beats AF in the MWC semis, BYU will get an 10 or 11 seed. I think they may win that game depending upon matchup. I think BYU wins if they are a 10 seed or higher. Seeding depends upon sweeping the remaining home games, winning two more road games and making the MWC tournament final.

The key will be taking care of the ball. I am far more impressed with the low turnovers against UNLV than I am Mike Rose having his second career night of his career. BYU will always have a couple of nights like that, I recall the first weekend of the 2001 conference season when Lyday and Whiting went off against UNLV and SDSU in the Marriott Center. Those come and go, by all means it was spectacular timing, but IMO if BYU can keep TOs at 13-14 and below they can beat both SDSU and WYO on the road. I also think we have a good chance of beating Air Force in Colorado Springs. Our key players have seen their system quite a few times and we have a big man they cannot stop. We matchup better with the Flyboys than many.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by mpfunk

Oh and by the way I don't see an about in that sentence. "As good as guard play as you will ever see in the MWC," looks like you left out the about.

You're right I did. My bad.

But honestly, what does Andre Miller's championship game run have anything to do with guard caliber play sufficient for a Sweet 16 run? You're just making yourself look stupid for going to the weak smack rivalry card in a serious basketball thread on a BYU board when BYU has a good team.

[mpfunk]

Originally Posted by jay santos

You're right I did. My bad.

But honestly, what does Andre Miller's championship game run have anything to do with guard caliber play sufficient for a Sweet 16 run? You're just making yourself look stupid for going to the weak smack rivalry card in a serious basketball thread on a BYU board when BYU has a good team.

I do think BYU has a very good team this year. I think that BYU may very well win the MWC this year. They have as good of a chance of winning it as AFA or UNLV at this point, the three teams that are clearly the best in the conference.

My point is I don't think BYU has the potential to make a Sweet 16 run, but I could certainly see you winning a first round game. I see several problems that will hold BYU back this year. You don't have a go to player with tournament experience, this is why it was killer that you did not make the NCAA tournament last year. Your coach does not have NCAA tournament experience. You team has below average guard play.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by mpfunk

Oh and by the way I don't see an about in that sentence. "As good as guard play as you will ever see in the MWC," looks like you left out the about.

Let him say it mp. Santos is cute when he thinks BYU has what it takes.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

If I were to rate the teams, I would rate this team as the best. The 2003 team, Hansen's senior year, would be #2. 2004 #3 and 2001 #4. This team is doing pretty well in a MWC that is the best it has ever been, that is why I rate this team as the top BYU team in recent memory. That 2003 club did win 5 MWC road games, but other than Utah and UNLV ever MWC team would be a bottom tier club in the MWC this year. The Y lost to the only two decent road teams it played. It also lost a home game. I think this BYU team would have gone 13-1 in that MWC.

This team is really playing well and improving. I think BYU might just be the best team in the MWC but I will wait until after the WYO game to make such a bold declaration. Dave Rose appears to be an upgrade to Cleveland and he is building a core that should make BYU pretty good for the next few years.

The early season losses could still be an achiles heel with regard to seeding, but BYU has a chance to win its way out of that hole if it can finish the season in style. By style I mean only one more loss in conference play. I think the most likely scenario is 12-4 in conference play and then losing to UNLV in the MWC championship. I think if BYU goes 12-4 and then beats AF in the MWC semis, BYU will get an 10 or 11 seed. I think they may win that game depending upon matchup. I think BYU wins if they are a 10 seed or higher. Seeding depends upon sweeping the remaining home games, winning two more road games and making the MWC tournament final.

The key will be taking care of the ball. I am far more impressed with the low turnovers against UNLV than I am Mike Rose having his second career night of his career. BYU will always have a couple of nights like that, I recall the first weekend of the 2001 conference season when Lyday and Whiting went off against UNLV and SDSU in the Marriott Center. Those come and go, by all means it was spectacular timing, but IMO if BYU can keep TOs at 13-14 and below they can beat both SDSU and WYO on the road. I also think we have a good chance of beating Air Force in Colorado Springs. Our key players have seen their system quite a few times and we have a big man they cannot stop. We matchup better with the Flyboys than many.

I know we've gotten screwed in our seeds in the past, but I see no logical reason for it, and don't expect it to happen in the future. We've had gaudy RPI's in the past that didn't match our power ratings, but we've now moved up to #32 in my power ratings. That's an 8 seed, and it should only improve as the abysmal 5-4 start gets diluted into more games.

I believe we'll get a 8-9 seed if we only lose three more games and a 10-11 seed if we lose four more games. Even that would be below what power ratings would suggest.

I've been very impressed with Ainge's ball control since the Broadus suspension. If you look at my NBA productivity stats, Broadus was actually the worst of the core 8 players. Ainge has flourished with the continuity and confidence as the #1 guy, and his stats and play was already better than Broadus.

[jay santos]

Ute fans, if I ever go on your board to console myself in a bad FB or BB season by trying to rain on your parade, feel free to call me the biggest loser that ever lived.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I know we've gotten screwed in our seeds in the past, but I see no logical reason for it, and don't expect it to happen in the future. We've had gaudy RPI's in the past that didn't match our power ratings, but we've now moved up to #32 in my power ratings. That's an 8 seed, and it should only improve as the abysmal 5-4 start gets diluted into more games.

I believe we'll get a 8-9 seed if we only lose three more games and a 10-11 seed if we lose four more games. Even that would be below what power ratings would suggest.

I've been very impressed with Ainge's ball control since the Broadus suspension. If you look at my NBA productivity stats, Broadus was actually the worst of the core 8 players. Ainge has flourished with the continuity and confidence as the #1 guy, and his stats and play was already better than Broadus.

I wonder if part of the improvement is similar to the old adage of not having two quarterbacks. I have never felt that BYU ran a significantly different style with Ainge versus Rashaun, but perhaps it is helping familiarity and that is making the offense more effective with one pg playing 35 minutes verus two playing 20. I don't know, but I do know that Ainge's performance will have a big impact on how BYU finishes. So far he is playing better than I thought he would. Tuesday nite and SDSU will be big challenges for Ainge.

I am not so upset about the screwing over seeds, BYU shot itself and had nobody to blame but itself both times. I really think that if BYU finishes this year with only three more losses at most they should get higher than a 12 and winning is more likely. To be really safe, only two more losses is what I would like to see. Lose to SDSU in San Diego and then lose to UNLV in the conference final.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

I wonder if part of the improvement is similar to the old adage of not having two quarterbacks. I have never felt that BYU ran a significantly different style with Ainge versus Rashaun, but perhaps it is helping familiarity and that is making the offense more effective with one pg playing 35 minutes verus two playing 20. I don't know, but I do know that Ainge's performance will have a big impact on how BYU finishes. So far he is playing better than I thought he would. Tuesday nite and SDSU will be big challenges for Ainge.

I am not so upset about the screwing over seeds, BYU shot itself and had nobody to blame but itself both times. I really think that if BYU finishes this year with only three more losses at most they should get higher than a 12 and winning is more likely. To be really safe, only two more losses is what I would like to see. Lose to SDSU in San Diego and then lose to UNLV in the conference final.

On the seeding: part of me thinks you're right just because we've been beaten up so bad on seeds in the past. But there is no logical reason for it. Other teams tank at the end of the season and get better seeds. Other teams have few quality wins and get better seeds. Other teams are non conf champ teams from poor conferences and get better seeds. There seems to be no correlation as to why we've gotten screwed. Maybe it has to do with the Sunday play issue.

NCAA has 31 conf champions and 34 at large. Of the conf champions, usually at least 11 are ranked ahead of the worst at large. That makes #45 the cut off for bubble teams. Also, it makes the worst at large team a 12 seed. To say that the best seed BYU could get in a certain scenario is a 12 seed is a very pessimistic view--especially when the RPI's will be in the 30's.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Ute fans, if I ever go on your board to console myself in a bad FB or BB season by trying to rain on your parade, feel free to call me the biggest loser that ever lived.

Jay, I apologize for my snide comment; however, you seem to not want to consider that mp pointing out that guard play is necessary for a team to get to the Sweet 16 and beyond. mp only stated that he didn't feel that BYU's guards were sufficient and you decided that he was only saying it because Utah basketball sucks right now - which it does - but he was only making an observation that is true. I can't think of a team that has ever made it past the 2nd round without solid guards. Can you?

As for seeding, there is no logical reason why BYU got the seeding it did in the past, but the NCAA is anything but a logical entity. There is rarely any logic in the decisions that the NCAA makes at any time, so BYU getting a seed of 12 can be explained for that reason alone.

That said, one thing that the selection committee does seem to look at is past performance and BYU didn't help itself the last few time in the tournament by going out and getting beat. Had your team won a game or two and proved that it deserved a more favorable seeding, it would have sent the message that it deserved to be seeded higher.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Jay, I apologize for my snide comment; however, you seem to not want to consider that mp pointing out that guard play is necessary for a team to get to the Sweet 16 and beyond. mp only stated that he didn't feel that BYU's guards were sufficient and you decided that he was only saying it because Utah basketball sucks right now - which it does - but he was only making an observation that is true. I can't think of a team that has ever made it past the 2nd round without solid guards. Can you?

As for seeding, there is no logical reason why BYU got the seeding it did in the past, but the NCAA is anything but a logical entity. There is rarely any logic in the decisions that the NCAA makes at any time, so BYU getting a seed of 12 can be explained for that reason alone.

That said, one thing that the selection committee does seem to look at is past performance and BYU didn't help itself the last few time in the tournament by going out and getting beat. Had your team won a game or two and proved that it deserved a more favorable seeding, it would have sent the message that it deserved to be seeded higher.

I don't seek you guys out to run rivalry smack. I don't go to your board. I don't start threads here cracking on you. I don't even post in the rivalry section here. I'm not about BYU's relative position vs the U. I'm about BYU. But if you come on a BYU board and talk smack, expect to get it returned. Seattle Ute was the one that started it last week, not me.

Mpfunk saying none of the four good BYU teams of the 2000's had what it takes to make a Sweet 16 run when teams like Bradley and George Mason make Sweet 16 runs, it's ridiculous. We just beat a ranked team by 27 points. We may not be top 16 but we clearly have what it takes to make a two game run. He backed it up with weak Andre Miller crap showing where his head is. It's weak rivalry smack. And if you bring it at me, whatever dude, good chance I'll bring it back.

By the way, do you really believe that BYU's guard play is worse than all 160 Sweet 16 teams of the past 10 years?