Jensen vs Cummard

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

If we're to the point where Cummard is being compared to Alex Jensen, it's just a sign that Cummard has a lot of improving to do. This isn't exactly the type of comparison that gets me all giddy.

I think the overall impact both made, especially in areas where statistics don't tell the whole story, makes it a very apt comparison.

Lee reminds me more of Alex Jensen than any other kid I have seen in the MWC since Alex graduated.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Two different players with different roles on two different teams in two different times. No need to compare them.

I think a better question would be how each would fare in the other team. Would Jensen help this BYU team? Would Cummard help that Utah team?

I don't know enough about this BYU team to be able to say what Jensen could do, but I doubt that Cummard would get off the bench for that Utah team.

Saying you don't know enough, while in the same sentence saying Cummard wouldn't get off the bench...you're contradicting yourself.

It's like Funk making the comparisons he was making, then admitting later he hasn't watched ONE single BYU game all season.

[mpfunk]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

If we're to the point where Cummard is being compared to Alex Jensen, it's just a sign that Cummard has a lot of improving to do. This isn't exactly the type of comparison that gets me all giddy.

Then you are completely ignorant as a college basketball fan. Jensen was the best defender that one of the best defensive coaches of all time ever had. Apparently you hate defense.

In addition throw in a couple of accolades like these:

1998: NCAA Tournament all-West regional team
1998-1999: All-WAC First Team Pacific division
1999-2000: MWC Player of the Year

You are flat out ignorant about basketball if you are not excited about a comparison to Alex Jensen.

[mpfunk]

Here is my point on the Alex Jensen v. Cummard comparison

I think Jensen was the better player as sophomore. I also think that Jensen's stats severely suffered as a sophomore, because he was very out of shape from his mission (something that Cummard is not dealing with) and he simply was not needed to score or rebound that much on that team. The scoring was handled by Andre Miller, Doleac, and Mottola. Even Drew Hansen was more important offensively.

Where Jensen wins this battle is in defense. Utah was simply the better defensive team, and IMO it was largely a great defensive team because of Jensen.

In addition you cannot separate team results from all this comparison. Jensen was the key lock down defender in the Utes victories against UNC and Arizona. If you want Ute players in order of importance to the 1998 NCAA Championship game run it goes: Andre Miller, Alex Jensen, and Mike Doleac.

[Insensitive PAP]

He does the same things Jensen did, i.e. defend, rebound, shoot, and pass, but Cummard's a better athlete with more skill. Jensen gets brownie points for being tougher, this was his real value, but saying Jensen was better because his team was better is the equivalent of saying Kurt Rambis was better than Karl Malone.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by mpfunk

Here is my point on the Alex Jensen v. Cummard comparison

I think Jensen was the better player as sophomore. I also think that Jensen's stats severely suffered as a sophomore, because he was very out of shape from his mission (something that Cummard is not dealing with) and he simply was not needed to score or rebound that much on that team. The scoring was handled by Andre Miller, Doleac, and Mottola. Even Drew Hansen was more important offensively.

Where Jensen wins this battle is in defense. Utah was simply the better defensive team, and IMO it was largely a great defensive team because of Jensen.

In addition you cannot separate team results from all this comparison. Jensen was the key lock down defender in the Utes victories against UNC and Arizona. If you want Ute players in order of importance to the 1998 NCAA Championship game run it goes: Andre Miller, Alex Jensen, and Mike Doleac.

I'll have to trust you when it comes to Jensen's defense because I don't remember him well. I remember him as being a little slow to defend on the perimeter. He also played with a lot of tall guys behind him, and nobody in that time period could touch Utah's inside D.

Cummard has been labeled the premier perimeter defender in the MWC by an opposing coach. Cummard blows Jensen away in steals and blocks. Unless you can provide some more compelling evidence, I'm gonna have to believe at best it's sixes when you compare the two defensively--especially as soph's.

I always thought Majerus' comment on Jensen being the best defender he ever had as just a nice compliment to a hard-nosed role player type kid who Majerus really liked. I don't think most people took it seriously, including Ute fans. Am I right on that?

[mpfunk]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I'll have to trust you when it comes to Jensen's defense because I don't remember him well. I remember him as being a little slow to defend on the perimeter. He also played with a lot of tall guys behind him, and nobody in that time period could touch Utah's inside D.

Cummard has been labeled the premier perimeter defender in the MWC by an opposing coach. Cummard blows Jensen away in steals and blocks. Unless you can provide some more compelling evidence, I'm gonna have to believe at best it's sixes when you compare the two defensively--especially as soph's.

I always thought Majerus' comment on Jensen being the best defender he ever had as just a nice compliment to a hard-nosed role player type kid who Majerus really liked. I don't think most people took it seriously, including Ute fans. Am I right on that?

Alex Jensen in his last 3 years at Utah was consistently called on to defend the opposing teams players from the 1-4 position. Jensen's assignment in the Utah-Arizona game was on Miles Simon, and he shut him down. He was also the primary defender on Vince Carter in the Utes victory over UNC.

Jensen was not a fast player, and frankly he was not going to lock anyone down with individual defense. The good thing is that basketball is a team game, and team defense is more important than individual defense. From everything I heard I would take Cummard over Jensen if it was a game of one on one, but in a basketball game I take Jensen. Jensen knew exactly where to be at each moment on defense. He always knew exactly how to funnel his man to help, to accomodate for any of his weaknesses.

Also I will throw one more thing into this debate. A comparison of freshman stats for Cummard and Jensen.

Alex Jensen
MIN FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG TPG BPG SPG PPG
24.8 58.8 100.0 75.7 6.1 1.6 1.6 0.4 0.6 6.7

Lee Cummard
MIN FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG TPG BPG SPG PPG
14.8 45.5 .395 76.5 2.3 1.6 1.1 .4 .6 4.9

Cummard had a much bigger jump from his freshman to sophomore years, but I think that was a lot easier for him because he was not suffering the ill effects of a mission. We all know that it takes about a year to really recover from a mission.

As for the steals and blocks, no Majerus player will ever be high in those stats. Majerus didn't teach his players to go for steals and blocks. Instead he wanted to rely on position defense, and didn't have his players gamble. Utah was always very low nationally in steals and blocks, but generally had some of the best points allowed per game and fg% defense.

[Indy Coug]

I wouldn't take anything Majerus said seriously, especially about things like practice hours and needing to flee, er, leave SLC in the middle of the night to fly to Santa Barbara to deal with a heart problem.

[mpfunk]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

I wouldn't take anything Majerus said seriously, especially about things like practice hours and needing to flee, er, leave SLC in the middle of the night to fly to Santa Barbara to deal with a heart problem.

I also would not take anything you have to say about basketball seriously, because you hate players who play defense.

[Indy Coug]

Alex Jensen benefitted from the Coattail Syndrome, where a player on a successful team gets more credit than they deserve because the team is successful.

It has nothing to do with offense, defense or special teams.

Alex Jensen was a good, but largely unspectacular player that I would want any self-respecting wingman for BYU to aspire to be better than.