Jensen vs Cummard

[mpfunk]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Alex Jensen benefitted from the Coattail Syndrome, where a player on a successful team gets more credit than they deserve because the team is successful.

It has nothing to do with offense, defense or special teams.

Alex Jensen was a good, but largely unspectacular player that I would want any self-respecting wingman for BYU to aspire to be better than.

I know Alex Jensen's senior year he was an unspectatular MWC player of the year. He also lead his team to the second round of the NCAA tournament. All this while playing some of the best team defense in the country.

You are flat out ignorant of Ute hoops, end of story, if you don't think Jensen played a huge role in those great Ute teams.

By the way how many of these self-respecting BYU wingman who should be so much better than Jensen have multiple first team all-conference awards, a conference POY, and have been all-regional for the NCAA tournament?

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by mpfunk

I know Alex Jensen's senior year he was an unspectatular MWC player of the year. He also lead his team to the second round of the NCAA tournament. All this while playing some of the best team defense in the country.

You are flat out ignorant of Ute hoops, end of story, if you don't think Jensen played a huge role in those great Ute teams.

By the way how many of these self-respecting BYU wingman who should be so much better than Jensen have multiple first team all-conference awards, a conference POY, and have been all-regional for the NCAA tournament?

I don't want them to have better awards than Jensen, I want them to be better players. There's a difference.

[jay santos]

A better comparison with Alex Jensen would be Brock Riechner. He was a glue player that played above the expectation level given his God given talent. If Riechner had the post defenders Jensen had, he would have been considered just as good defensively. If he had experienced NBA players surrounding him, he likely could have taken his team deep into the NCAA.

Cummard has much bigger upside. If he can become more aggressive offensively, he will be the star, not a really good role player.

[mpfunk]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

I don't want them to have better awards than Jensen, I want them to be better players. There's a difference.

Well these awards are great indications of how good Alex Jensen was as a player.

You should be thrilled to have a wing player at BYU aspire to be at the level of Alex Jensen, since you have not had a single guy in the Cleveland or Rose era that is as good as Alex Jensen.

Oh and since I know you will bring up Travis Hansen, well perhaps Hansen should have got his team out of the first round of the NCAA tournament if he wanted to be considered better than Jensen.

Hansen had Araujo and still couldn't get out of the first round, Jensen had less of a supporting cast in 1999-2000 and still got his team to the second round. He was also not just a role player on that team, he was the team's go to guy.

[mpfunk]

Originally Posted by jay santos

A better comparison with Alex Jensen would be Brock Riechner. He was a glue player that played above the expectation level given his God given talent. If Riechner had the post defenders Jensen had, he would have been considered just as good defensively. If he had experienced NBA players surrounding him, he likely could have taken his team deep into the NCAA.

Cummard has much bigger upside. If he can become more aggressive offensively, he will be the star, not a really good role player.

Brock Riechner are you kidding me. You cannot be serious. I think lost in all this discussion is the fact that as a senior Alex Jensen was the best player on a team that went to the NCAA tournament and actually won a game. In 1999-2000 it is not like the Utes had great post defenders either. In that year our post defenders were Nate Althoff, Phil Cullen and Hanno Mottola. Mottola was frankly a bad defensive player, Cullen was only serviceable on defense.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by mpfunk

Brock Riechner are you kidding me. You cannot be serious. I think lost in all this discussion is the fact that as a senior Alex Jensen was the best player on a team that went to the NCAA tournament and actually won a game. In 1999-2000 it is not like the Utes had great post defenders either. In that year our post defenders were Nate Althoff, Phil Cullen and Hanno Mottola. Mottola was frankly a bad defensive player, Cullen was only serviceable on defense.

Another guy like Jensen was Mark Durrant. He was a tough, defender, rebounder, team guy that would score a lot of garbage points.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by mpfunk

Here is my point on the Alex Jensen v. Cummard comparison

I think Jensen was the better player as sophomore. I also think that Jensen's stats severely suffered as a sophomore, because he was very out of shape from his mission (something that Cummard is not dealing with) and he simply was not needed to score or rebound that much on that team. The scoring was handled by Andre Miller, Doleac, and Mottola. Even Drew Hansen was more important offensively.

Where Jensen wins this battle is in defense. Utah was simply the better defensive team, and IMO it was largely a great defensive team because of Jensen.

In addition you cannot separate team results from all this comparison. Jensen was the key lock down defender in the Utes victories against UNC and Arizona. If you want Ute players in order of importance to the 1998 NCAA Championship game run it goes: Andre Miller, Alex Jensen, and Mike Doleac.

You also have not watched one single BYU game this year thus rendering your opinion as irrelevant.

[UteStar]

This is some of the most ridiculous arguing that I have seen in a while. Alex and Brock Riechner...are you serious? Did you ever watch Jensen? Seriously, that is brutal jay, seriously brutal. Alex was a remarkable defender that used his defense, not the team defense, to guard the opposition. He handled all defensive assignments and shut them down. Coach after coach talked about how their key player was taken out of the game by Alex.

Now offensively, you all realize that Alex shot about 55% from the field as a junior and a senior? He also shot nearly 50% from three land.

Now, in regards to Cummard--I like Cummard's game quite a bit. Lets see how he does as a junior and a senior. I think he has the potential to be a fabulous player. Can he be as good as Alex? Sure. Can he be better than Alex? Maybe. Can he turn into another Bigelow? Sure. Who knows...but some of the arguments that indy and jay have made are just silly.

I do agree with Goat...Cummard does remind people a bit of Alex because he does everything pretty well and he does things that don't show up in the stats sheets. We know how Alex turned out and We'll see how Lee turns out.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by UteStar

This is some of the most ridiculous arguing that I have seen in a while. Alex and Brock Riechner...are you serious? Did you ever watch Jensen? Seriously, that is brutal jay, seriously brutal. Alex was a remarkable defender that used his defense, not the team defense, to guard the opposition. He handled all defensive assignments and shut them down. Coach after coach talked about how their key player was taken out of the game by Alex.

Now offensively, you all realize that Alex shot about 55% from the field as a junior and a senior? He also shot nearly 50% from three land.

Now, in regards to Cummard--I like Cummard's game quite a bit. Lets see how he does as a junior and a senior. I think he has the potential to be a fabulous player. Can he be as good as Alex? Sure. Can he be better than Alex? Maybe. Can he turn into another Bigelow? Sure. Who knows...but some of the arguments that indy and jay have made are just silly.

I do agree with Goat...Cummard does remind people a bit of Alex because he does everything pretty well and he does things that don't show up in the stats sheets. We know how Alex turned out and We'll see how Lee turns out.

My last couple posts about Jensen have been mostly TIC.

Honestly, I didn't watch enough of Alex to have a good take. I can look at the stats. My memory's not that good of him. I remember thinking he was overrated. I remember being more worried about Utah's other players. I always thought he was a great player--hustler, leader, tough--but not a difference maker.

[UteStar]

jay...nice to see the honesty, but you are dead wrong about him being overrated and about not being a difference maker. If you barely remember him, it is hard to talk about him.

As I said before, he is a guy that guarded the oppositions best player (guard or forward). He was great at defense because he stayed in front of his players. Short guys could not shoot over him and struggled to ever get around him...tall guys struggled to get in a position to score over him. He was also clutch down the stretch (game winning shots including an absolutely amazing final couple of minutes against Air Force at Air Force during his senior year). In terms of not letting his team lose, I would put Alex second behind Andre Miller. I would put him ahead of Van Horn (who hit a bunch of last second clutch shots), Bogut, Hanno and Doleac.

Jensen really did it all. Right now, Cummard is nowhere near the player that Alex was. With that said, maybe he will be in the next year or two. He definately shows traits that make him invaluable. It will be interesting to see how he turns out.