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SeattleUte · 03-04-2007, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I don't know what you call "talent". I define it as basketball ability sufficient to win games.

And I know, without a doubt, that BYU has more basketball talent than Utah. Look at Young making the Utes look like they were playing in slow motion.

I'm just going to laugh when next year you guys are puzzled why you aren't ranked in the top 25.

The point about Majerus is that he cripped Giac's ability to recruit due to the recruiting restrictions.

But of course, you guys think that Giac recruited great talent.

I think it's interesting that Ute fans give credit to the players for all the good wins this year, and credit to the coach for every loss.

But on the other hand, I guess you have to credit the Utes for not turning on everyone. They very easily could have turned on the coach AND the players.

And having coached five games today, I can tell you that players don't always listen. Whether it be among deacons, college, or the NBA. I have a guy on my team who is convinced he is a good outside shooter. His shots freqently miss the rim and backboard by several feet. The announcers said that Giac did everything he could to try and get his guys to play defense. It takes heart to play defense. And those players didn't have any heart. "You knew what I was when you recruited me."

There are only two reasons informed Ute fans think this team may have some talent: First, Neville; Neville scored 26 points and had 9 rebounds against BYU the first time they played and he had these types of numbers over and over again this year. He's only a sophomore and any objective person recognizes his current worth and very high upside. He has received a fair amount of national recognition for being on such a bad team. So if you think Neville lacks talent you're alone in that assessment.

Second, Utah beat two teams from the ACC and Pac 10 that have been ranked almost all year and were among the elite of those conferences--UVA tied for first, and WA State second place. I believe WA State cracked the top ten. It is currently ranked no. 13. This is something that BYU may not have achieved since Ainge for all I know and probably won't match even this year. Some people not unreasonably believe it takes some real talent to beat UVA (on a neutral court) and WA St if not AF for that matter. BYU got a scheduling break in that it didn't play AF until it began its annual death spiral. The Utes handed AF its frist MWC loss, when AF was ranked no. 11.

These facts suggest a more than respectable talent pool.

SeattleUte · 03-04-2007, 05:58 AM

The other thing to bear in mind about Utah is that some losses that early on looked horrible were not so bad--for example, Albany, Rhode Island and Santa Clara all finished at or near the top of their conferences, won more than 20 games, and would have beaten, say, Boise State, by 20 or so. Utah's schedule was within the 25 toughest in the country last I checked.

That being said the Utes had losses to teams like SUU, Northwestern (blown out), Colorado and TCU that looked terrible when they occurred and stayed that way, and the Utes finished in the bottom half of a mediocre conference.

The schizofrenia as much as anything else makes it difficult to judge this team's talent and makes you see how really at loose ends was Giacoletti.

Detroitdad · 03-04-2007, 07:34 AM

I am with the Ute fans on this. The Utes are not the most taleted team by a long shot, but they definitely have more talent than an 11 win squad. Do they have enough talent on hand to have expected a 20 win season? No way. But a tiny bit better than .500 ought to have been expected, on the strength of having Neville on the squad alone. How many 7 footers that can do jack are there in the NCAA this year? Not more than a dozen.

The really perplexing losses coupled with the equally perplexing wins point to an erratically coached team, and one that teams with good prepation could beat. That responsibility lies with Giacoletti.

MikeWaters · 03-04-2007, 12:59 PM

If one were to argue that with a good coach, this team should have ended up at .500--that is hardly a ringing endorsement of the quality of players you are working with.

I'm not saying Giac was a good coach. I'm just saying that Giac being mediocre isn't the whole picture. I see a court full of stiffs.

Neville is a stiff (only 29 blocks), but a good one.

MikeWaters · 03-04-2007, 01:12 PM

Just read the trib article that the Utes only have one senior and one junior on the team. That sounds almost unprecedented. His back was against the wall.

Cali Coug · 03-04-2007, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtahDan

This was actually the first game this year I was able to see. I don't think we have great talent outside of Nevill who if coached properly ought to be a dominant college player. I do think, however, that we have better talent than the 10 wins show. I didn't think BYU's team today was more talented or if it was only marginally so.

As I said to those I was watching with about two minutes in, watching the two teams was a night a day difference. BYU plays disciplined defense and runs its sets on offense. Utah did neither of those things. Coaching, particularly on defense, makes such a huge difference at this level.

I was listening last week to Gary Williams (Mayland's coach) talk about the Duke team. Williams said that Duke lost its offensive firepower to the NBA last year and that, consequently, they had no choice but to work themselves into a GREAT defensive team, which in his opinion they had. This got me thinking. An "offensive" oriented or run and gun style coach can never work at Utah. Why? Because every is going to be the year when we don't have great offensive firepower. There will be years when NBA talent is in the system, but that won't be consistent. So the way you win is by being disciplined, playing great defense and doing the fundamental things right. This is the way you maximize what you have.

This is what many Utah fans who thought that Majerus could be easily replaced didn't understand. That Utah team I watched tonight did not have the makings of a great team, however, there is no reason even with the youth that we shouln't have won 20 games this years. There were so many things I observed in the game where players just did dumb things or things where it was obvious that no one have ever taught them the right way to do it. This is the reason Chris Hill was right to recognize his error at this point, rather than seeing a better more experienced team underachieve again next year.

As a coach, you have to maximize what your team can do. Giac failed to do that. It is not because the talent is horrible or anyone turned on him. He just didn't get the best ouf of what he had. I think there is reason to think this could be a much better team next year.

Ute fans sure love Chris Hill. He is even getting credit for getting rid of Giac when both he and Giac say Giac resigned without Hill's involvement.

il Padrino Ute · 03-04-2007, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Ute fans sure love Chris Hill. He is even getting credit for getting rid of Giac when both he and Giac say Giac resigned without Hill's involvement.

Well, I think Giac's resignation was more along the lines of Crowton's - he was given the chance to resign before he got fired. Dr. Hill isn't going to announce that he gave Giac the chance to resign.

SeattleUte · 03-04-2007, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Ute fans sure love Chris Hill. He is even getting credit for getting rid of Giac when both he and Giac say Giac resigned without Hill's involvement.

Il Pad will vouch I don't revere him. Also, only you belive he wasn't really fired.

SeattleUte · 03-04-2007, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

If one were to argue that with a good coach, this team should have ended up at .500--that is hardly a ringing endorsement of the quality of players you are working with.

I'm not saying Giac was a good coach. I'm just saying that Giac being mediocre isn't the whole picture. I see a court full of stiffs.

Neville is a stiff (only 29 blocks), but a good one.

We'll see. Utah had only one senior this year, and he was little used. Its main players were sophomore's and freshmen. They have a freshman point guard from So. Cal. who was a top 100 prospect. It isn't uncommon for a team like this to come off of a losing season and win 25+. Majerus' first season after Archibald was fired is a case in point. He won 31 I think.

Another reason some people hypothesize this young Ute team has talent is that it is a good shooting team and has demonstrated the ability to light up the scoreboard, which most informed people agree takes athleticism and basketball skills.

il Padrino Ute · 03-04-2007, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Il Pad will vouch I don't revere him. Also, only you belive he wasn't really fired.

True, Seattle believes that he's done a good job but he hasn't built a Dr. Hill shrine.

03-04-2007, 05:58 AM	#12
SeattleUte fairlds.org Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10,665	The other thing to bear in mind about Utah is that some losses that early on looked horrible were not so bad--for example, Albany, Rhode Island and Santa Clara all finished at or near the top of their conferences, won more than 20 games, and would have beaten, say, Boise State, by 20 or so. Utah's schedule was within the 25 toughest in the country last I checked. That being said the Utes had losses to teams like SUU, Northwestern (blown out), Colorado and TCU that looked terrible when they occurred and stayed that way, and the Utes finished in the bottom half of a mediocre conference. The schizofrenia as much as anything else makes it difficult to judge this team's talent and makes you see how really at loose ends was Giacoletti. __________________ Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster

03-04-2007, 07:34 AM	#13
Detroitdad Resident Jackass Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Roswell, New Mexico Posts: 1,846	I am with the Ute fans on this. The Utes are not the most taleted team by a long shot, but they definitely have more talent than an 11 win squad. Do they have enough talent on hand to have expected a 20 win season? No way. But a tiny bit better than .500 ought to have been expected, on the strength of having Neville on the squad alone. How many 7 footers that can do jack are there in the NCAA this year? Not more than a dozen. The really perplexing losses coupled with the equally perplexing wins point to an erratically coached team, and one that teams with good prepation could beat. That responsibility lies with Giacoletti.

03-04-2007, 12:59 PM	#14
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	If one were to argue that with a good coach, this team should have ended up at .500--that is hardly a ringing endorsement of the quality of players you are working with. I'm not saying Giac was a good coach. I'm just saying that Giac being mediocre isn't the whole picture. I see a court full of stiffs. Neville is a stiff (only 29 blocks), but a good one.

03-04-2007, 01:12 PM	#15
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Just read the trib article that the Utes only have one senior and one junior on the team. That sounds almost unprecedented. His back was against the wall.