Family size

[RedHeadGal]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/08/fashion/08bigfam.html

Large families--freak show or no? What's a large family to you?

I wonder what the averages would be for Mormon families during the same time span they discuss in the article. I'm sure it's shrunk as well.

In 1976, census data show, 59 percent of women ages 40 to 44 had three or more children, 20 percent had five or more and 6 percent had seven or more.

By 2006, four decades after the Supreme Court declared a constitutional right to use birth control (and the last year available from census studies), 28 percent of women ages 40 to 44 had three or more children, 4 percent had five or more and just 0.5 percent had seven or more.

[RedHeadGal]

I've thought about this lately in the context of a person who came from a big family (I give it a thumbs down). And I have been shocked more than once to reconnect with old friends (thanks again, Facebook) and discover people with 6 kids or so. I simultaneously marvel at them, envy them, and just plain think they are nuts.

It seems to me that the new number of kids to have for Mormon families is 3-5. What happened to the 5-8 of just a generation or two ago?

[MikeWaters]

Of course it has shrunk for Mormons. Look at how the number of missionaries fell. Most of that was due to demographics.

1. desire for career and money
2. want to have GAP kids and fancy playdates and private schools
3. perception that one cannot adequately provide emotional and financial support for more than 2 kids
4. just never get around to it. "bad timing"
5. "boutique family"
6. start too late
7. dogs and cats are just as fulfilling

[marsupial]

Talking to a woman in a former ward who raised 8 kids she said, "I just didn't even think about it. It was what I thought I was supposed to do." She admitted that if she was having kids now she would have fewer and would wait until after she finished school to start.

I think it is more socially acceptable to have fewer kids in our culture now so we are. We aren't being pushed as hard to multiple and replenish. We're not being told that birth control is bad. So, without that pressure and/or guilt why would we have 8 kids?

Really, I don't think this woman is probably all that different from the other moms of big families in her generation. They did it because they thought they were supposed to. I am not sure women of my generation feel as much pressure anymore.

[MikeWaters]

it's actually a problem in a lot of countries. Like in Western Europe and In Japan. Where birthrates have fallen to the point that the entire system is in jeopardy. Shrinking populations = shrinking entitlements = shrinking economies.

Part of it may be a fundamental pessimism and unhappiness.

The future belongs to those people who have children. That is a FACT.

[RedHeadGal]

I remember a RS lesson not too long ago where a woman in her early 30s (with 4 kids at the time--now 5) gave an impassioned little speech about how "the world" values material things, but we must value family by having children. So that view is still out there, I guess.

I don't even know what to think about this topic. I think my mother had babies because she liked babies, and she had no other ambitions. She didn't know what to do with the older children so much, though.

Does my religion give me a message on family size? All I can think of is "children you are able to care for" or something to that effect. But Mike couches most of the reasons for limiting family size pejoratively. Where does that come from?

[marsupial]

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

I remember a RS lesson not too long ago where a woman in her early 30s (with 4 kids at the time--now 5) gave an impassioned little speech about how "the world" values material things, but we must value family by having children. So that view is still out there, I guess.

I don't even know what to think about this topic. I think my mother had babies because she liked babies, and she had no other ambitions. She didn't know what to do with the older children so much, though.
Does my religion give me a message on family size? All I can think of is "children you are able to care for" or something to that effect. But Mike couches most of the reasons for limiting family size pejoratively. Where does that come from?

That's funny. It reminds me of a character in the Gloria Naylor's book The Women of Brewster Place. She kept having children because she loved babies, but neglected them once they were older. I can see how it could happen. Babies make me want to have more babies. When they get older they have more complex needs and meeting those needs no longer brings an immediate reward as it did when they were infants. Taking care of older kids makes me think I am done.

[MikeWaters]

in many societies, wealth is measured in posterity.

Not in our society. We measure our wealth in terms of currency and possessions.

[MikeWaters]

everyone here is an estate sale and monster.com job listing away from complete zero.

emminently replaceable.

except to your family, and most especially to your children.

[marsupial]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

in many societies, wealth is measured in posterity.

Not in our society. We measure our wealth in terms of currency and possessions.

It's not just about money, it's about time. Once upon a time in agrarian societies families with lots of children were families with lots of farm workers. Life isn't like that anymore. Children are expected to spend all day in school and then come home to do homework. Add in an extracuricular activity or two and their day is full from morning to night. Parents are away from home and at work all day. They hardly have time to spend with the 1-3 kids they may have let alone think about adding 5 or 6 more to the brood.