Lesson 37 (Gospel Doctrine): Hebrews - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

pelagius · 09-29-2007, 05:10 PM

Lesson 37 notes: Hebrews

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jay santos · 10-15-2007, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelagius

Lesson 37 notes: Hebrews

HTML Version
PDF of the Notes

A couple questions. I know the authorship is in doubt. But, who do you (anyone, but especially Pelagius, SIEQ, AA and other scholars) believe wrote Hebrews?

Also, what is the logic behind the ordering of the gospel doctrine lessons? Is it chonological? I thought Romans was one of the last epistles Paul wrote?

pelagius · 10-15-2007, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

A couple questions. I know the authorship is in doubt. But, who do you (anyone, but especially Pelagius, SIEQ, AA and other scholars) believe wrote Hebrews?

Know one really knows. I think many scholars believe that the author has a Hellenistic background. For example, the author contrasts the heavenly and earthly spheres in a way that seems influenced by Platonic thought (see the New Jerome Bible Commentary, page 921 for a brief discussion of this). This apparent Hellenistic influence has led some (including I believe Martin Luther) to suggest that Apollos (see Acts 18:24) was the author.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

Also, what is the logic behind the ordering of the gospel doctrine lessons? Is it chonological? I thought Romans was one of the last epistles Paul wrote?

I think it is a chronological based on a very conservative/traditional view of authorship and dating.

jay santos · 10-22-2007, 02:32 AM

A few things from my study.

1. 2: 7. KJV says "a little lower than the angels". NRSV says "made them for a little while lower than the angels". Very interesting. KJV the word little is a relative standing with the angels, and we run with that in a lot of our doctrinal analysis. NRSV little is a reference to the time that we are lower than the angels. NRSV might be a stronger case for LDS deification doctrine as we are just like Jesus in this. see verse 9 "Jesus who for a little while was made lower than the angels". Same little while, with the implication that like Jesus, we are possibly higher than the angels in a future state?

2. A lot of verses compare to BoM.

Hebrews 4 => Alma 5 and 4: 8 => Alma 5:26
4:15 => Alma 7:11,12
Hebrews concept of Christ being perfect and holy yet submitting to will of God and learning obedience =>2 Ne 31
Hebrews 11 => first half of Ether 12
summary of Hebrews in one sentence => Moroni 10:32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness.

3. 5: 2 "He is able to deal gently with the ignorant and wayward, since he himself is subject to weakness." This word weakness I believe has a stronger connotation to mortality. Makes me think if the condesencion of Jesus involved more of a taking on of mortal attributes than I've thought before.

4. SIEQ mentioned Hebrews admonishes us to push past the simple doctrine to get to deeper doctrine. I believe this is a reference to Hebrews 6: 1-6. I'm not sure, but my initial impression is to disagree with this take. The theme of Hebrews is about a community of Christians who accept Christ and are born again but then after that initial spiritual high they languish in sin and struggle following Christ. There is the reference to the Israelites in the wilderness as an allegory to this. There is this concept of being made holy or being sanctified which is a call to Christians in this post-saved state to remove sin from their lives and make their lives emulate Christ's. I think this Hebrews 6:1-6 passage is more of the same. It's not so much an intellectual call, but a specific invititation not to those who are in that initial Christian phase of learning the basic teachings about Christ and basic instructions on baptism, "enlightenment" in the NRSV v. 4. But it's a call for those who have already been through that phase and now are in the v. 6 phase of fallen away and holding up the Son of God to contempt by not having their actions show their faith.

09-29-2007, 05:10 PM	#1
pelagius Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,431	Lesson 37 (Gospel Doctrine): Hebrews Lesson 37 notes: Hebrews HTML Version PDF of the Notes Last edited by pelagius; 09-29-2007 at 05:17 PM.

10-22-2007, 02:32 AM	#4
jay santos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,177	A few things from my study. 1. 2: 7. KJV says "a little lower than the angels". NRSV says "made them for a little while lower than the angels". Very interesting. KJV the word little is a relative standing with the angels, and we run with that in a lot of our doctrinal analysis. NRSV little is a reference to the time that we are lower than the angels. NRSV might be a stronger case for LDS deification doctrine as we are just like Jesus in this. see verse 9 "Jesus who for a little while was made lower than the angels". Same little while, with the implication that like Jesus, we are possibly higher than the angels in a future state? 2. A lot of verses compare to BoM. Hebrews 4 => Alma 5 and 4: 8 => Alma 5:26 4:15 => Alma 7:11,12 Hebrews concept of Christ being perfect and holy yet submitting to will of God and learning obedience =>2 Ne 31 Hebrews 11 => first half of Ether 12 summary of Hebrews in one sentence => Moroni 10:32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness. 3. 5: 2 "He is able to deal gently with the ignorant and wayward, since he himself is subject to weakness." This word weakness I believe has a stronger connotation to mortality. Makes me think if the condesencion of Jesus involved more of a taking on of mortal attributes than I've thought before. 4. SIEQ mentioned Hebrews admonishes us to push past the simple doctrine to get to deeper doctrine. I believe this is a reference to Hebrews 6: 1-6. I'm not sure, but my initial impression is to disagree with this take. The theme of Hebrews is about a community of Christians who accept Christ and are born again but then after that initial spiritual high they languish in sin and struggle following Christ. There is the reference to the Israelites in the wilderness as an allegory to this. There is this concept of being made holy or being sanctified which is a call to Christians in this post-saved state to remove sin from their lives and make their lives emulate Christ's. I think this Hebrews 6:1-6 passage is more of the same. It's not so much an intellectual call, but a specific invititation not to those who are in that initial Christian phase of learning the basic teachings about Christ and basic instructions on baptism, "enlightenment" in the NRSV v. 4. But it's a call for those who have already been through that phase and now are in the v. 6 phase of fallen away and holding up the Son of God to contempt by not having their actions show their faith.