Innoculation: Changes in the Book of Mormon

[Sleeping in EQ]

The missionaries came by my place last night (just before FHE) and one of them was distraught.

You see, they had some zealous Catholic guy show them that there were major changes in the BoM that Mormon's don't know about (yes, the rhetoric of the unveiled secret!)

What were the changes?

1 Ne 11: 18, 21, and 32, and 13:40:

The 1837 edition of the BoM added some words to the 1830 edition. I'll put the added words in italics:

11: 18: Behold, the virgin which thou seest is the mother of the Son of God...

11: 21: Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father!

11: 32: And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the Son of the everlasting God...

13:40: the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Savior of the world...

The thrust of this position seems to be that in the 1830 BoM, Jesus is God and the Father, but not the Son of the Father or of God. You might be able to empathize with the confused missionary as this is a serious claim.

However, this is a specious claim. As I told the missionaries:

1. On the level of the BoM, you don't have a doctrinal change between the 1830 and 1837 editions. Both editions teach that: Jesus is the Son of God, Jesus is the Son of the Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Father, Jesus is both the Father and the Son, and Jesus has a God and Father who is distinct and seperate. (I can give references for each of these if asked).

2. These teachings are found in all editions of the BoM.

3. Joseph Smith made these changes himself, and made plenty of grammatical changes for the 1837 edition too. If you believe a prophet can change things like this, you don't necessarily have a problem.

4. You can buy the 1830 edition of the BoM from Deseret Book, can get your hands on other additions (at least the texts, if you don't have the $ to buy rare editions), and can make comparisons yourself. The Church isn't hiding anything here.

5. Royal Skousen is part way through a project that compares changes in all the English editions of the BoM. He discusses these changes at length. These changes are well known to many in the Church who have taken the time to investigate them. There's no real secret here.

6. The ambiguities in the BoM can be a strength on these subjects. Explore!

Now lie down for a few minutes, eat something, and wait at least 30 minutes before you go swimming.

[Tex]

Jeffrey Holland did a dissertation on the textual differences between six different publications of the Book of Mormon while at BYU. I stumbled across it accidentally while doing some unrelated research.

Interesting stuff.

[BigFatMeanie]

The church still has some of the original handwritten manuscript preserved in their vaults. The manuscript was placed in the cornerstone of the Nauvoo temple. When the temple was destroyed they eventually dug up the manuscripts but a large part of it was destroyed due to water damage. The RLDS ended up with some and the church has some. It would be cool if they would scan that manuscript and make the images available online but I doubt that will happen.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie

The church still has some of the original handwritten manuscript preserved in their vaults. The manuscript was placed in the cornerstone of the Nauvoo temple. When the temple was destroyed they eventually dug up the manuscripts but a large part of it was destroyed due to water damage. The RLDS ended up with some and the church has some. It would be cool if they would scan that manuscript and make the images available online but I doubt that will happen.

If anyone deserves access to the originals, it's Royal Skousen.

[SoCalCoug]

Originally Posted by Sleeping in EQ

If anyone deserves access to the originals, it's Royal Skousen.

I had a class from Royal Skousen. Very level-headed and very smart. I really enjoyed the class.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by Sleeping in EQ

The missionaries came by my place last night (just before FHE) and one of them was distraught.

You see, they had some zealous Catholic guy show them that there were major changes in the BoM that Mormon's don't know about (yes, the rhetoric of the unveiled secret!)

What were the changes?

1 Ne 11: 18, 21, and 32, and 13:40:

The 1837 edition of the BoM added some words to the 1830 edition. I'll put the added words in italics:

11: 18: Behold, the virgin which thou seest is the mother of the Son of God...

11: 21: Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father!

11: 32: And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the Son of the everlasting God...

13:40: the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Savior of the world...

The thrust of this position seems to be that in the 1830 BoM, Jesus is God and the Father, but not the Son of the Father or of God. You might be able to empathize with the confused missionary as this is a serious claim.

However, this is a specious claim. As I told the missionaries:

1. On the level of the BoM, you don't have a doctrinal change between the 1830 and 1837 editions. Both editions teach that: Jesus is the Son of God, Jesus is the Son of the Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Father, Jesus is both the Father and the Son, and Jesus has a God and Father who is distinct and seperate. (I can give references for each of these if asked).

2. These teachings are found in all editions of the BoM.

3. Joseph Smith made these changes himself, and made plenty of grammatical changes for the 1837 edition too. If you believe a prophet can change things like this, you don't necessarily have a problem.

4. You can buy the 1830 edition of the BoM from Deseret Book, can get your hands on other additions (at least the texts, if you don't have the $ to buy rare editions), and can make comparisons yourself. The Church isn't hiding anything here.

5. Royal Skousen is part way through a project that compares changes in all the English editions of the BoM. He discusses these changes at length. These changes are well known to many in the Church who have taken the time to investigate them. There's no real secret here.

6. The ambiguities in the BoM can be a strength on these subjects. Explore!

Now lie down for a few minutes, eat something, and wait at least 30 minutes before you go swimming.

This is the thing that led to Paul Toscano's excommunication. He was a convert who had some background in theology and read the BOM to say that the Father and the Son are the same person, having no concept for years that this was actually a heresy. Eventually he was confronted about it teaching this to others and refused to back down.

I think the BOM can at very least be said to contain some ambiguities on this point.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Sleeping in EQ

The missionaries came by my place last night (just before FHE) and one of them was distraught.

You see, they had some zealous Catholic guy show them that there were major changes in the BoM that Mormon's don't know about (yes, the rhetoric of the unveiled secret!)

What were the changes?

1 Ne 11: 18, 21, and 32, and 13:40:

The 1837 edition of the BoM added some words to the 1830 edition. I'll put the added words in italics:

11: 18: Behold, the virgin which thou seest is the mother of the Son of God...

11: 21: Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father!

11: 32: And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the Son of the everlasting God...

13:40: the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Savior of the world...

The thrust of this position seems to be that in the 1830 BoM, Jesus is God and the Father, but not the Son of the Father or of God. You might be able to empathize with the confused missionary as this is a serious claim.

However, this is a specious claim. As I told the missionaries:

1. On the level of the BoM, you don't have a doctrinal change between the 1830 and 1837 editions. Both editions teach that: Jesus is the Son of God, Jesus is the Son of the Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Father, Jesus is both the Father and the Son, and Jesus has a God and Father who is distinct and seperate. (I can give references for each of these if asked).

2. These teachings are found in all editions of the BoM.

3. Joseph Smith made these changes himself, and made plenty of grammatical changes for the 1837 edition too. If you believe a prophet can change things like this, you don't necessarily have a problem.

4. You can buy the 1830 edition of the BoM from Deseret Book, can get your hands on other additions (at least the texts, if you don't have the $ to buy rare editions), and can make comparisons yourself. The Church isn't hiding anything here.

5. Royal Skousen is part way through a project that compares changes in all the English editions of the BoM. He discusses these changes at length. These changes are well known to many in the Church who have taken the time to investigate them. There's no real secret here.

6. The ambiguities in the BoM can be a strength on these subjects. Explore!

Now lie down for a few minutes, eat something, and wait at least 30 minutes before you go swimming.

Tell the young Elder not to worry and have him remind this Catholic guy that the Catholic Church made some changes to the 10 Commandments. It dumped the 2nd commandment (to not make or worship any graven images) and split the 10th Commandment into 2 separate commandments. (Don't covet your neighbor's wife and don't covet your neighbor's house.)

[Anthesian]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

This is the thing that led to Paul Toscano's excommunication. He was a convert who had some background in theology and read the BOM to say that the Father and the Son are the same person, having no concept for years that this was actually a heresy. Eventually he was confronted about it teaching this to others and refused to back down.

I think the BOM can at very least be said to contain some ambiguities on this point.

Interesting perspective. Paul Toscano gave a speech quite a while back titled "The Call of Mormon Feminism". In his speech, he made reference to a vision that JS had. This vision showed JS God the Father, God the Mother, and the Son. Toscano advocated this Godhead.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Anthesian

Interesting perspective. Paul Toscano gave a speech quite a while back titled "The Call of Mormon Feminism". In his speech, he made reference to a vision that JS had. This vision showed JS God the Father, God the Mother, and the Son. Toscano advocated this Godhead.

God the Mother? Based on what account?

[Anthesian]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

God the Mother? Based on what account?

Joseph Smith had been traveling with some other members of the church and told them that they were to lay on the ground because they were about to see a great vision. However, the vision differs from version to version based on who is retelling the story.