SDSU game canceled?

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

is he paying attention? Just like all the massive respect Hawaii is getting?

I saw a bowl projection, SI I believe, where Hawaii was in a BCS bowl. There's two kinds of respect.

1, is the respect Boise and Hawaii and Utah got for beating up on non-BCS schools. The national guys pat them on their heads and say good job you get a BCS game if you go undefeated against that crap and we'll talk about you as being the best of the worst. But nowhere will we talk about you in the same breath as the real big boys: OK, USC, Mich, Ohio St, FL, LSU, etc.

2, is the respect Boise got for beating OK and the respect BYU was getting in the 80's and lesser degree 90's. This now puts you right there with the big boys and we don't look at you as one of the little guys anymore.

Bronco's goal is #1, I believe. But the AD's really the one who has to catch the vision and drive towards it. Holmoe's lost in all this. He's clueless and impotent.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by jay santos

No it wasn't Ute smack it was smack against the smackers. I'm usually a pretty fair representation of Utah County BYU fan population. Go ask 1,000 BYU fans which season was more satisfying 1994 10-3 win over Notre Dame, Oklahoma blow out win in bowl game, and top 25 ranking, but 2nd place in WAC or 1995 7-4 WAC champions no bowl game no signature win. Conference championship means JACK.

I'm curious how you think those 1000 BYU fans would answer the following hypothetical: the next 10 years of MWC championships with corresponding bowls, or the next 10 years of never winning a PAC-10 championship ever (were we to go to the PAC-10, of course).

[Clark Addison]

I get the impression that winning conference championships for LaVell was the end goal, everything on top of that was gravy, and to Indy's point, it worked pretty well for him. For Bronco, I get the impression that it is the means to an end. Bronco talks a lot about conference championships, but it is usually in the context of "consistently" winning conference championships. He doesn't say "we want to win the MWC this year" as much as he says "we want to consistently win the MWC". It's kind of a subtle difference, but to me it means that he recognizes that we can't be a national player if we regularly come in 2nd or 3rd in our little po-dunk conference.

In any single season, I agree with Jay that winning a conference championship isn't the most important measure. But for reaching long term goals, conference domination is important, assuming we can't get to a better conference.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

I don't know. Perhaps you're not brave enough to post there.

Never thought I see Pad sticking up for Utefans.net.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Tex

I'm curious how you think those 1000 BYU fans would answer the following hypothetical: the next 10 years of MWC championships with corresponding bowls, or the next 10 years of never winning a PAC-10 championship ever (were we to go to the PAC-10, of course).

You'd need more detail on that to give people a fair vote. Let's look at last two MWC championship years.

Last year we finished #17 computer rankings, which puts us 3rd place in Pac 10. Last year would fans have preferred destroying the MWC, playing 5th place Pac 10 in bowl game or would have they preferred a run at the Pac 10 title with huge games with national focus against USC and Cal that had Rose Bowl and national championship implications. I'm not sure where Pac 10 #3 goes in a bowl, but obviously better than Vegas Bowl.

2001, before Staley goes down we are computers #10, which puts us 2nd place in Pac 10 behind Oregon. So again, we're in the Pac 10 title hunt playing games with top 20 teams with national championship and Rose Bowl implications. We have college game day in Provo with Lee Corso putting on a Cosmo head. We lose the Pac 10 title but go to the Holiday Bowl, one of the big time bowls.

Take a vote on those two scenarios from 1,000 fans.

[MikeWaters]

I vote for Pac-10. I vote for relevance. I vote for survival.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I vote for Pac-10. I vote for relevance. I vote for survival.

Well geeze if we can push a button, I vote that in good years for the PAC 10, we are there, and in good years for the SEC, we are there.

In fact, NBC should dump ND and replace BYU will a lucrative contract. Holmoe, you're a loser for not thinking of that.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I saw a bowl projection, SI I believe, where Hawaii was in a BCS bowl. There's two kinds of respect.

1, is the respect Boise and Hawaii and Utah got for beating up on non-BCS schools. The national guys pat them on their heads and say good job you get a BCS game if you go undefeated against that crap and we'll talk about you as being the best of the worst. But nowhere will we talk about you in the same breath as the real big boys: OK, USC, Mich, Ohio St, FL, LSU, etc.

2, is the respect Boise got for beating OK and the respect BYU was getting in the 80's and lesser degree 90's. This now puts you right there with the big boys and we don't look at you as one of the little guys anymore.

Bronco's goal is #1, I believe. But the AD's really the one who has to catch the vision and drive towards it. Holmoe's lost in all this. He's clueless and impotent.

I will have to respectfully disagree. Before BYU could make any advances back to making it on the national scene, the higher ups had to be calmed and re-educated. That is not an easy task. I have several business friends who say dealing with the religious side is difficult because there is this air of "we are always right, God is on our side."

I think Holmoe has done a masterful job of doing that. Once control has been given back to the athletic department, look at some of the signs of the good results. The HC and how it is handled is in check. I am not a big fan of the HC, but I think it is in check as best as can be hoped for.

Second, look at the increases in pay the coaches are getting. That is a major statement in my opinion and another indication the people that are running things are in the Athletic department and not the social studies and religion departments.

Give it time. Once these guys consolidate their power, good things will happen. Management workings of a charity, utility or religion are a lot more complicated than being in a good solid business environment. Although the bottom line is the ultimate goal, a lot of people in those environments don't get it.

[MikeWaters]

People like me and Jay need to put Holmoe's feet to the fire. Because if people like us don't, no one will.

We are checks against those that would destroy the program, the Indy-esque Crowton-loving sunshine pumper yes-men.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

People like me and Jay need to put Holmoe's feet to the fire. Because if people like us don't, no one will.

We are checks against those that would destroy the program, the Indy-esque Crowton-loving sunshine pumper yes-men.

Actually you need to keep the heat on the clueless fans. Although I know they have little affect, I sometimes worry that some administrator types hear what they say and actually think most fans feel that way.

Holmoe and others are smart enough to pay attention to their most important constituents, the ones who run the University and the ones who pay for the program.

A guy the other day said it is different at BYU, people who have money can't influence what is being done. I fell off my chair laughing. The other people in the room weren't so kind. One of them called him a dumb ass.