Why I'm really optimistic about Ute football.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by mpfunk

Like I said I agree with you that he has done a better job. What I disagree with you is that BYU was in worse shape than Utah when he took over. You don't really address that point now do you?

You think Utah was in worse shape than BYU when Bronco took over?

Didn't Utah just go BCS and BYU just vomited into the toilet bowl?

[mpfunk]

Originally Posted by Archaea

You think Utah was in worse shape than BYU when Bronco took over?

Didn't Utah just go BCS and BYU just vomited into the toilet bowl?

From that team on offense the Utes lost: starting QB (first pick in the NFL draft), starting RB, 2 best WRs, lost basically the entire offensive line (if I remember correctly). Major losses on the defensive side.

2 lost recruiting classes in 4 years, because of coaching changes. The other 2 recruiting classes were sub par considering Meyer didn't really recruit that hard at Utah.

Yes Utah was in worse shape.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by mpfunk

Like I said I agree with you that he has done a better job. What I disagree with you is that BYU was in worse shape than Utah when he took over. You don't really address that point now do you?

I have addressed that point a couple of times already.

I think Bronco had a lot more to clean up, repair and re-mold than KW did upon taking over a program that had won a lot of Championships and was now in disarray from Honor Code scandals, losses on and off the field, and 3 losing seasons in a row.

At that particular point I just cannot agree that BYU's program was in better shape than Utah's. Utah was coming off the euphoria of a BCS Bowl win. While that raised unrealistic expectations for many U fans, to say that the program was worse off than BYU's at that point is just ridiculous.

Let's not kid ourselves...Championships are the exception not the rule for Utah football, while at BYU over the past 30 years it's become the standard and if you don't then it's considered a failure. Simliar to Utah Basketball.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by mpfunk

From that team on offense the Utes lost: starting QB (first pick in the NFL draft), starting RB, 2 best WRs, lost basically the entire offensive line (if I remember correctly). Major losses on the defensive side.

2 lost recruiting classes in 4 years, because of coaching changes. The other 2 recruiting classes were sub par considering Meyer didn't really recruit that hard at Utah.

Yes Utah was in worse shape.

And BYU experienced a wonderful recruiting class during Crowton's last years?

And BYU lost nothing in the process?

You focused only upon Utah's losses, but you ignored BYU's pitiful state and its losses.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by mpfunk

From that team on offense the Utes lost: starting QB (first pick in the NFL draft), starting RB, 2 best WRs, lost basically the entire offensive line (if I remember correctly). Major losses on the defensive side.

2 lost recruiting classes in 4 years, because of coaching changes. The other 2 recruiting classes were sub par considering Meyer didn't really recruit that hard at Utah.

Yes Utah was in worse shape.

Utah in 2005 was similar to BYU in 2007. They returned the majority of players on offense and defense, however they lost their key skill players.

I think the real rottening of the shaft became apparant with the Utes in 2006.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by Archaea

And BYU experienced a wonderful recruiting class during Crowton's last years?

And BYU lost nothing in the process?

You focused only upon Utah's losses, but you ignored BYU's pitiful state and its losses.

He is holding out a feint hope that Whittingham is Bronco's equal. To admit that Kyle was starting out equal to Bronco or ahead of him makes it difficult to continue to hold out that faint hope. It is a situation where the outcome has been determined so one fills in the blanks. Since BYU was so significantly better in 2006 and since the cause could not be Bronco is a better coach one is left to conclude the success was either due to 1.) BYU's seniors in 2006 but that has been disproven over the past 13 weeks or 2.) Bronco had a head start on Kyle.

In Funks defense has been arguing this angle since the middle of the 2005 season.

[mpfunk]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

He is holding out a feint hope that Whittingham is Bronco's equal. To admit that Kyle was starting out equal to Bronco or ahead of him makes it difficult to continue to hold out that faint hope. It is a situation where the outcome has been determined so one fills in the blanks. Since BYU was so significantly better in 2006 and since the cause could not be Bronco is a better coach one is left to conclude the success was either due to 1.) BYU's seniors in 2006 but that has been disproven over the past 13 weeks or 2.) Bronco had a head start on Kyle.

In Funks defense has been arguing this angle since the middle of the 2005 season.

I'm not trying to reason that Whittingham is BM's equal, I have stated in this thread that I do believe that BM is the better head coach. The results speak for themselves that BM is better. I doubt that Whittingham will ever be the equal of BM. In fact I'm still not sold on Whittingham as the long term head coach for the Utes, considering his bizarre loyalty to his incompetent buddies.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by mpfunk

I'm not trying to reason that Whittingham is BM's equal, I have stated in this thread that I do believe that BM is the better head coach. The results speak for themselves that BM is better. I doubt that Whittingham will ever be the equal of BM. In fact I'm still not sold on Whittingham as the long term head coach for the Utes, considering his bizarre loyalty to his incompetent buddies.

What loyalty is that, he defeated us one out of three and didn't let us blow you guys out. How's that for loyalty?

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

KWhit trails Bronco by the stat that matters the most.

Bronco 2 MWC Championships.

KW... ZERO.

Considering Bronco had to rebuild a program mired in a 3 season losing streak compared to KW being given the reigns to a BCS Bowl Winner...to this point it's pretty clear who's done the better job.

The days of Utah coaches losing their jobs because Utah can't keep up with BYU went away with McBride.

Bronco has done a hell of a job. So has KW, considering the fact that he was pretty much the only guy left on that staff that went to the Fiesta Bowl. Bronco certainly had a bigger task, but with what KW has had to deal with, he's done an admirable job as well.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

The days of Utah coaches losing their jobs because Utah can't keep up with BYU went away with McBride.

Bronco has done a hell of a job. So has KW, considering the fact that he was pretty much the only guy left on that staff that went to the Fiesta Bowl. Bronco certainly had a bigger task, but with what KW has had to deal with, he's done an admirable job as well.

I like KW. I think he's done an admirable job considering what he had to work with.

I think KW's biggest strength, loyalty, is also his biggest weakness. I'll maintain that as long as Ludwig is your OC Utah won't reach the potential it could with the kind of players and athletes you guys have at the skill positions on offense. Sad thing is next year a lot of those players will be Seniors and will be Ludwig's last chance to really let them loose and my guess is the team will show flashes of offensive brilliance,,,but nothing near what their potential and talent suggests.