If you were an LDS recruit being recruited

[creekster]

Originally Posted by BYU71

How long ago were you at BYU. Someone has told me the attractiveness level has taken a real hit over the last several years. However, I know some gals who have gone there that are daughters of some friends and they are very pretty girls.

A long, long time ago (78-79). I too have heard the attractiveness is not what it once was. SO maybe Baylor is lookign pretty good these days.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

What kind of bizarre hypothetical are you dreaming up here? Where would anyone have to declare that the rules come from God?

Indy, I will leave you with this to ponder. For BYU to become better and better, folks are going to have to give up on the idea that good always trumps evil. That God wants us to win so we can do missionary work. That the saying faith without works is dead applies especially to BYU football. I know that is contrary to the Collie catch and the blocked field goal belief by some that God did that. I believe hard work and the players did it. God was busy somewhere else. Maybe a dieing child or someone praying to get a testimony.

Think outside of the box. It is quite possible as someone told me that people of other faiths are offended being told they have to represent the church. Tell them they need to represent the school, let them figure out the school represents the church.

[MikeWaters]

A kid from my ward goes to Baylor. I'm as perplexed as you.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

A kid from my ward goes to Baylor. I'm as perplexed as you.

Does he have to sign any code agreement. I am sure plenty of schools do, but the only ones I know that strictly enforce them are BYU and Bob Jones.

Of course I am sure the service academies do.

[shobeewan]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Indy, I will leave you with this to ponder. For BYU to become better and better, folks are going to have to give up on the idea that good always trumps evil. That God wants us to win so we can do missionary work. That the saying faith without works is dead applies especially to BYU football. I know that is contrary to the Collie catch and the blocked field goal belief by some that God did that. I believe hard work and the players did it. God was busy somewhere else. Maybe a dieing child or someone praying to get a testimony.

Think outside of the box. It is quite possible as someone told me that people of other faiths are offended being told they have to represent the church. Tell them they need to represent the school, let them figure out the school represents the church.

You say "folks are going to have to give up on the idea that good always trumps evil." That sure sounds like a yewt talking there. I don't remember anyone but Ute fans saying that Collie was telling everyone how evil the Utes were, and it wasn't his point at all.

I am sorry that someone you know was offended that they were told they represented the Church by playing football for BYU. Unfortunately the actions of the football team reflect on the church. There has never been an honor code, legal, or other kind of incident either on or off the field where the Church isn't brought into the mix. Going to a college that is sponsored by a religion would be a no-brainer in my mind that you represent the Church who sponsors the University. It is a fact of life. If someone who isn't a member doesn't like that fact they are welcome to play at another University.

As far as your question about another religious school and if my son was playing football for them and told they had to obey the rules. If he agreed to those rules I would expect him to follow them. I don't care if there are crying testimonies stating the rules were written on stone from God himself, the hand of the Dean, or even stupid rules the coach makes up himself. If I or my son agree to those rules and for that agreement a scholorship is given he had better follow through with the agreement.

Why do we need to be embarassed of our religion? In a world of increasingly sensetive people who are looking to be offended at the drop of a hat, are we sopposed to fall into the "politically correct" rank and file so we don't hurt anyone's feelilngs? I believe at that point you become extremely wishy-washy and forget exactly what you stand for in the attempt to make everyone feel warm and fuzzy.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by shobeewan

You say "folks are going to have to give up on the idea that good always trumps evil." That sure sounds like a yewt talking there. I don't remember anyone but Ute fans saying that Collie was telling everyone how evil the Utes were, and it wasn't his point at all.

I am sorry that someone you know was offended that they were told they represented the Church by playing football for BYU. Unfortunately the actions of the football team reflect on the church. There has never been an honor code, legal, or other kind of incident either on or off the field where the Church isn't brought into the mix. Going to a college that is sponsored by a religion would be a no-brainer in my mind that you represent the Church who sponsors the University. It is a fact of life. If someone who isn't a member doesn't like that fact they are welcome to play at another University.

As far as your question about another religious school and if my son was playing football for them and told they had to obey the rules. If he agreed to those rules I would expect him to follow them. I don't care if there are crying testimonies stating the rules were written on stone from God himself, the hand of the Dean, or even stupid rules the coach makes up himself. If I or my son agree to those rules and for that agreement a scholorship is given he had better follow through with the agreement.

Why do we need to be embarassed of our religion? In a world of increasingly sensetive people who are looking to be offended at the drop of a hat, are we sopposed to fall into the "politically correct" rank and file so we don't hurt anyone's feelilngs? I believe at that point you become extremely wishy-washy and forget exactly what you stand for in the attempt to make everyone feel warm and fuzzy.

Ute fans were saying that Collie said Utes were evil? You sure about that? Or is that zoob talk?

The Ute fans that were gnashing their teeth - and I have felt all along that it was absolutely ridiculous to get upset about Collie's comments - were doing so for exactly the reason that BYU71 brings up. I don't believe Collie was saying that God cares about BYU football more than other college teams, but it could be interpreted as such.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by shobeewan

You say "folks are going to have to give up on the idea that good always trumps evil." That sure sounds like a yewt talking there. I don't remember anyone but Ute fans saying that Collie was telling everyone how evil the Utes were, and it wasn't his point at all.

I am sorry that someone you know was offended that they were told they represented the Church by playing football for BYU. Unfortunately the actions of the football team reflect on the church. There has never been an honor code, legal, or other kind of incident either on or off the field where the Church isn't brought into the mix. Going to a college that is sponsored by a religion would be a no-brainer in my mind that you represent the Church who sponsors the University. It is a fact of life. If someone who isn't a member doesn't like that fact they are welcome to play at another University.

As far as your question about another religious school and if my son was playing football for them and told they had to obey the rules. If he agreed to those rules I would expect him to follow them. I don't care if there are crying testimonies stating the rules were written on stone from God himself, the hand of the Dean, or even stupid rules the coach makes up himself. If I or my son agree to those rules and for that agreement a scholorship is given he had better follow through with the agreement.

Why do we need to be embarassed of our religion? In a world of increasingly sensetive people who are looking to be offended at the drop of a hat, are we sopposed to fall into the "politically correct" rank and file so we don't hurt anyone's feelilngs? I believe at that point you become extremely wishy-washy and forget exactly what you stand for in the attempt to make everyone feel warm and fuzzy.

I will just take it that either I am terrible at expressing myself or that it is human nature when one disagrees it is easier to repeat what someone said and change it a bit.

It may be a subtle difference, but telling somene they are to represent BYU and letting them figure out BYU represents the church and telling them they are representing the Church. There is also a big difference between the word "represent" and "reflects on" the church. However, your interpretation falls right in line with those who are "active LDS Ute fans", there fear anything that happens at BYU affects the churches image. Those who are constantly worried about image live inside the box instead of outside of box.

How do folks in BYU gear at a Casino with a beer in hand represent the church. Maybe we should form a sqaud to go around and remove those folks forceably from the Casino's.

Lastly to those of you in this thread who proudly proclaim if they signed up for the rules, you would follow them. Good for you. I would too. My question was would you have any problem signing the rules.

Sorry, but if I was a star QB recruited by ND and told my main job was to promote the Catholic church by leading them to a national championship, I would say no thanks. My main goal is to excel at athletics and get a good. education. Now if my main job was to get the ball to the Catholic receivers, win a NC and as a by product people would have an interest in the Catholic church, then so be it.

Just so no one now says no coach has said that to a recruit to BYU, I concede I don't know what the coaches say. I am relating a story told me by a non-LDS players parent about taking offense to something said. I won't say more about the player or the parent as some seem to automatically want to condemn people who might speak such blashpemous things.

It seemed to be a pretty simple question. I didn't think it rose to the level of determining whether one will attain the Celestial Kingdom or not.

[shobeewan]

Originally Posted by BYU71

I will just take it that either I am terrible at expressing myself or that it is human nature when one disagrees it is easier to repeat what someone said and change it a bit.

It may be a subtle difference, but telling somene they are to represent BYU and letting them figure out BYU represents the church and telling them they are representing the Church. There is also a big difference between the word "represent" and "reflects on" the church. However, your interpretation falls right in line with those who are "active LDS Ute fans", there fear anything that happens at BYU affects the churches image. Those who are constantly worried about image live inside the box instead of outside of box.

How do folks in BYU gear at a Casino with a beer in hand represent the church. Maybe we should form a sqaud to go around and remove those folks forceably from the Casino's.

Lastly to those of you in this thread who proudly proclaim if they signed up for the rules, you would follow them. Good for you. I would too. My question was would you have any problem signing the rules.

Sorry, but if I was a star QB recruited by ND and told my main job was to promote the Catholic church by leading them to a national championship, I would say no thanks. My main goal is to excel at athletics and get a good. education. Now if my main job was to get the ball to the Catholic receivers, win a NC and as a by product people would have an interest in the Catholic church, then so be it.

Just so no one now says no coach has said that to a recruit to BYU, I concede I don't know what the coaches say. I am relating a story told me by a non-LDS players parent about taking offense to something said. I won't say more about the player or the parent as some seem to automatically want to condemn people who might speak such blashpemous things.

It seemed to be a pretty simple question. I didn't think it rose to the level of determining whether one will attain the Celestial Kingdom or not.

Please allow me to apologize for the assumption that your point was a call for a change of policy rather than a simple question.

I don't think it is much of a stretch to go from being a member of the team to representing the Church. If as a member of the BYU football team, you represent the team, and if it is perceived (right or wrong) that the BYU football team represents the church, doesn't that mean that as a member of the team you represent the church? Now this isn't anything that scares me or I fret over a great deal because I see the distinction, but to say there isn't any kind of representation is wrong in my opinion. So it looks like I am surrounded by cardboard.

Every national broadcast of a BYU game that I have ever seen has at some point mentioned the missionary program, how many married member we have on our team, and the church. The team is an outward reflection on the team as a whole. And yes anyone who is sitting in Vegas gambling and drinking wearing a BYU shirt is going to be thought of as a member of the church. Right or wrong that just happens.

That said, I can see your point about becoming a missionary for the church. I don't think Bronco or his staff are making the new recruits sing "I Hope They Call Me on a Mission." But it could easily be a perception made by recruits or their families. If they are uncomfortable with that they should go somewhere else.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by shobeewan

Please allow me to apologize for the assumption that your point was a call for a change of policy rather than a simple question.

I don't think it is much of a stretch to go from being a member of the team to representing the Church. If as a member of the BYU football team, you represent the team, and if it is perceived (right or wrong) that the BYU football team represents the church, doesn't that mean that as a member of the team you represent the church? Now this isn't anything that scares me or I fret over a great deal because I see the distinction, but to say there isn't any kind of representation is wrong in my opinion. So it looks like I am surrounded by cardboard.

Every national broadcast of a BYU game that I have ever seen has at some point mentioned the missionary program, how many married member we have on our team, and the church. The team is an outward reflection on the team as a whole. And yes anyone who is sitting in Vegas gambling and drinking wearing a BYU shirt is going to be thought of as a member of the church. Right or wrong that just happens.

That said, I can see your point about becoming a missionary for the church. I don't think Bronco or his staff are making the new recruits sing "I Hope They Call Me on a Mission." But it could easily be a perception made by recruits or their families. If they are uncomfortable with that they should go somewhere else.

We can agree, the football team represents the church. If you play for BYU you should have no thoughts that your positive action, winning, you are not bringing a positive reflection on the church.

That being said, I would hope recruits are told you are representing BYU football. AS a member of this team you are expected to follow certain rules in order to represent our team.

Maybe I am the lone ranger. I would never go to a school where they told me I was expected to represent their faith. What if someone asked me if I believed the Pope spoke for God. My answer would have to be no.

[shobeewan]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Maybe I am the lone ranger. I would never go to a school where they told me I was expected to represent their faith. What if someone asked me if I believed the Pope spoke for God. My answer would have to be no.

Your not a lone ranger there, I would answer the same way. That said, I honestly don't see your point here. I think your making a huge jump from being asked to represent by keeping one's actions within the bounds of the honor code, and actively testifying that you fully support the position of the church. I would hope that Bronco is not making those who are of other faiths on our team to go and testify of the truthfulness of the gospel. From everything I have read there are service requirements and everything is up to the individual as to what that entails. But I don't have close personal contacts within the football program to confirm or deny anything, so I could be way off here.

I would be disapointed to find out Bronco was forcing testimonies from non-member team members. I just don't see it happening.