If you were an LDS recruit being recruited

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by shobeewan

Your not a lone ranger there, I would answer the same way. That said, I honestly don't see your point here. I think your making a huge jump from being asked to represent by keeping one's actions within the bounds of the honor code, and actively testifying that you fully support the position of the church. I would hope that Bronco is not making those who are of other faiths on our team to go and testify of the truthfulness of the gospel. From everything I have read there are service requirements and everything is up to the individual as to what that entails. But I don't have close personal contacts within the football program to confirm or deny anything, so I could be way off here.

I would be disapointed to find out Bronco was forcing testimonies from non-member team members. I just don't see it happening.

You and I agree, I don't think Bronco is asking these kids to do that. I am only saying that from the perspective of a non-member, try to think like they might, if a statement is made these young men are supposed to represent the church, a non-member parent may not get it as you and I do.

I just hope the statement made is that these young men represent BYU. Let everyone else draw the link between BYU and the church.

[il Padrino Ute]

One thing to keep in mind, is that people around the country see no difference between BYU and the LDS Church. It's all the same thing to them.

For that reason, I can understand why 71 would want Mendenhall to tell recruits that they are representing BYU when they play, and make no mention of the church.

All I know is that the Honor Code will scare away a lot of potential recruits, because Mendenhall has the guts to tell them that there is an honor code and that he expects that they abide by the honor code if they want to represent BYU. And that's a good thing.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

One thing to keep in mind, is that people around the country see no difference between BYU and the LDS Church. It's all the same thing to them.

For that reason, I can understand why 71 would want Mendenhall to tell recruits that they are representing BYU when they play, and make no mention of the church.

All I know is that the Honor Code will scare away a lot of potential recruits, because Mendenhall has the guts to tell them that there is an honor code and that he expects that they abide by the honor code if they want to represent BYU. And that's a good thing.

I too am glad Bronco is very clear with these kids. This is the way it is and the kids need to know the coach means business about keeping the rules.

I think there are plenty of kids out there whose parents would be very happy to have their kids live by the honor code rules BYU has. They might just feel they have very good kids and it isn't the rules that BYU has that makes them good kids. They might even feel by living the rules their kids are representing their own values and not BYU's. That is the pitch I would give. If these are your values, BYU will give you an environment where you can live and represent your values.

I just hope people realize even people who get baptized and slip up are not kicked out of the church. Hopefully a loving Bishop works with them to help reestablish living the values they agreed to. Luckily the Bishop doesn't have to worry about the public finding out and worry about how his decision reflects on the image of the ward.

My bet is that Bronco does value these kids who are non-members and recruits kids who have values and by representing BYU they are living these values on their own and not because they represent the church.

I live a lot of the values that evangelists have. It would bug me if someone said I am living their values and representing them by doing so.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

One thing to keep in mind, is that people around the country see no difference between BYU and the LDS Church. It's all the same thing to them.

For that reason, I can understand why 71 would want Mendenhall to tell recruits that they are representing BYU when they play, and make no mention of the church.

All I know is that the Honor Code will scare away a lot of potential recruits, because Mendenhall has the guts to tell them that there is an honor code and that he expects that they abide by the honor code if they want to represent BYU. And that's a good thing.

If he is winning BYU is not enforcing the Honor Code.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

If he is winning BYU is not enforcing the Honor Code.

At this level he might be. However, if we get to a higher level , you might be right. Hopefully fireside attendance keeps growing and I imagine those in power might not ask in depth how enforcement is being handled.

[shobeewan]

Originally Posted by BYU71

At this level he might be. However, if we get to a higher level , you might be right. Hopefully fireside attendance keeps growing and I imagine those in power might not ask in depth how enforcement is being handled.

Do you honestly believe BYU can't win at the highest levels while enforcing the honor code? Fireside attendance = a get out of jail card on enforcing the honor code? I hope I am misunderstanding you that you would be great with a coach who is up on a stand praising the tennants of living your life with exactness and honor and then in the darkness of his office letting honor code issues slide because this player is going to take us to the next level. I believe that's called hypocricy.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by shobeewan

Do you honestly believe BYU can't win at the highest levels while enforcing the honor code? Fireside attendance = a get out of jail card on enforcing the honor code? I hope I am misunderstanding you that you would be great with a coach who is up on a stand praising the tennants of living your life with exactness and honor and then in the darkness of his office letting honor code issues slide because this player is going to take us to the next level. I believe that's called hypocricy.

If I found out a player was touching some co-eds boobs, I would suspend him a game depending on the circumstances. If I caught a kid drinking, I might suspend him a game or two, depending on the circumstances. I didn't say that I would treat the next level kid any different than a walk on. I would treat them all the same, probably.

What would you do in those circumstances. Suspend them for a year or would you handle it like I would.

[shobeewan]

Originally Posted by BYU71

If I found out a player was touching some co-eds boobs, I would suspend him a game depending on the circumstances. If I caught a kid drinking, I might suspend him a game or two, depending on the circumstances. I didn't say that I would treat the next level kid any different than a walk on. I would treat them all the same, probably.

What would you do in those circumstances. Suspend them for a year or would you handle it like I would.

I would base discipline on the seriousness of the offense along with the kid's attitude. I can't say that touching a boobie is worth 3 games or one, or if you drink Nyquil you get one game but a beer is 2. I would also take into account if there have been other problems with said player. All discipline needs to be on a case by case basis, and from everything I have seen Bronco is doing just that.

In your post it came across to me that you were saying the honor code would be enforced less due to fireside attendance and the need to compete at a higher level.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by shobeewan

I would base discipline on the seriousness of the offense along with the kid's attitude. I can't say that touching a boobie is worth 3 games or one, or if you drink Nyquil you get one game but a beer is 2. I would also take into account if there have been other problems with said player. All discipline needs to be on a case by case basis, and from everything I have seen Bronco is doing just that.

In your post it came across to me that you were saying the honor code would be enforced less due to fireside attendance and the need to compete at a higher level.

What I was saying is Bronco will be given more lattitude in disciplining his players for infractions with a winning record and big fireside attendance than he would if he were losing and no firesides.

I don't care to debate this, but it is my belief that a coach with a record like Crowton had would be a lot more likely to be fired for HC issues on his team than a coach with a record like Bronco.

Any coach, win or lose would be in trouble if the HC issues got as big as they did with Crowton.

[shobeewan]

Originally Posted by BYU71

What I was saying is Bronco will be given more lattitude in disciplining his players for infractions with a winning record and big fireside attendance than he would if he were losing and no firesides.

I don't care to debate this, but it is my belief that a coach with a record like Crowton had would be a lot more likely to be fired for HC issues on his team than a coach with a record like Bronco.

Any coach, win or lose would be in trouble if the HC issues got as big as they did with Crowton.

I agree completely. I feel that if the coach has shown the ability to manage his team within the bounds of the honor code, the honor code office should stay out of his way.