Pac 10 irrelevant?

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

whenever you say "we", it is very confusing. It would be less confusing if you just said "BYU was favored..."

Oui.

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I was talking about the fact that non"BCS" teams have almost never won a title in college football, so why would it be shocking to label those conference as generally inferior? I have never understood why that is so offensive to mid-major fans. Do they expect to be held in the same regard as conferences that produce national championships every decade? Every few years?

Your argument about perception is a strawman. How can you argue about the perception of every fan? You said that "it gives fans the idea that every team from a BCS conference is automatically better than any team not in a BCS league." Do you know people who think this way? They think that Duke football is better this year than BYU or Utah?

Please name all the teams since WW2 that have won a championship. I bet the list has less than 20 teams on it. Are you giving the rest a pass because of conference affiliation? And go back and see my Mark May example. Maybe this topic isn't that important to you and you don't pay attention to media coverage about it, but I see this kind of thing from talking heads pretty much every week. It's like when we beat a bad ASU team a few years ago and the Fox announcers were going crazy about what a huge upset it was. It wasn't. ASU sucked and we were better.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by BlueK

Please name all the teams since WW2 that have won a championship. I bet the list has less than 20 teams on it. Are you giving the rest a pass because of conference affiliation?

You can find that list easily online.

We are talking about conferences, not teams.

The MWC, WAC, etc are mid major conferences. they are inferior, in general, to the BCS conferences. Not sure why that is such a difficult pill to swallow.

Perhaps you believe that on average, year in and year out, the MWC, CUSA, Big Sky, etc are actually on par with the BCS conferences? Just as deep, just as talented, etc.

You are obviously free to believe as you wish, but I will simply disagree that the MWC is not a mid-major. For if it were not, then the only alternative would be that it is an equal conference to the other BCS conferences. And that, amigo, is laughable.

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

You can find that list easily online.

We are talking about conferences, not teams.

The MWC, WAC, etc are mid major conferences. they are inferior, in general, to the BCS conferences. Not sure why that is such a difficult pill to swallow.

Perhaps you believe that on average, year in and year out, the MWC, CUSA, Big Sky, etc are actually on par with the BCS conferences? Just as deep, just as talented, etc.

You are obviously free to believe as you wish, but I will simply disagree that the MWC is not a mid-major. For if it were not, then the only alternative would be that it is an equal conference to the other BCS conferences. And that, amigo, is laughable.

the MWC against the BCS this season: 7-3. Not laughable, my friend. BYU, Utah or TCU would all have a good shot at winning the PAC 10, Big East, ACC or Big 10 this year. The MWC is closer to the BCS leagues than they are to the WAC, Sunbelt or MAC. You would probably want to argue otherwise, but the data at least this year doesn't back that up. Really, it hasn't for years. The WAC usually has one or two decent teams, but the rest is pathetic. Even "bad" MWC teams like UNLV can go on the road and beat a ranked ASU. You couldn't say that about any of the also rans from any other non-BCS leagues.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by BlueK

Please name all the teams since WW2 that have won a championship. I bet the list has less than 20 teams on it. Are you giving the rest a pass because of conference affiliation? And go back and see my Mark May example. Maybe this topic isn't that important to you and you don't pay attention to media coverage about it, but I see this kind of thing from talking heads pretty much every week. It's like when we beat a bad ASU team a few years ago and the Fox announcers were going crazy about what a huge upset it was. It wasn't. ASU sucked and we were better.

Our own fans don't even buy your argument.

We get all excited because our schedule has "Arizona" and "UCLA" on it. We beat an awful UCLA and Washington team and people on both boards are talking about Heismans and National Championships. The reason being is because we generally LOSE those games, so to finally break through and win them feels pretty good. Why is that? Because, for the most part, teams in our conference are not as good as those teams and it feels nice to beat up on them every now and then.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Our own fans don't even buy your argument.

We get all excited because our schedule has "Arizona" and "UCLA" on it. We beat an awful UCLA and Washington team and people on both boards are talking about Heismans and National Championships. The reason being is because we generally LOSE those games, so to finally break through and win them feels pretty good. Why is that? Because, for the most part, teams in our conference are not as good as those teams and it feels nice to beat up on them every now and then.

This year is different. MWC has 3 teams better than any team in the Pac 10.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by BlueK

the MWC against the BCS this season: 7-3. Not laughable, my friend.

Good point. The past 3 weeks proves your point.

All conferences are equal. I am now convinced.

Go back since the MWC inception. What is BYU's record against BCS schools? Is it a winning margin? i dont know off the top of my head....i bet we dominate...

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

This year is different. MWC has 3 teams better than any team in the Pac 10.

This year so far has been a good one for the MWC. Check that....these past 3 weeks have been good for the MWC.

Like i said, the term mid-major does not preclude this. BlueK is suggesting that the presumption is that every team in the BCS is automatically better. I dont think anyone really thinks that.

The MWC is a mid-major because, on the whole, the conference is weaker than its BCS counterparts. References to wins over really bad UCLA, Washington, etc teams does little to contradict. The win over ASU was about the only real quality win for the MWC.

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Good point. The past 3 weeks proves your point.

All conferences are equal. I am now convinced.

Go back since the MWC inception. What is BYU's record against BCS schools? Is it a winning margin? i dont know off the top of my head....i bet we dominate...

Pick a random list of BCS teams and see what their record against non-conference BCS teams is and then let's compare. I'd say we'd be in the middle of the pack.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

This year so far has been a good one for the MWC. Check that....these past 3 weeks have been good for the MWC.

Like i said, the term mid-major does not preclude this. BlueK is suggesting that the presumption is that every team in the BCS is automatically better. I dont think anyone really thinks that.

The MWC is a mid-major because, on the whole, the conference is weaker than its BCS counterparts. References to wins over really bad UCLA, Washington, etc teams does little to contradict. The win over ASU was about the only real quality win for the MWC.

it's not possible to have a quality win when you are playing the Pac 10. There aren't any quality teams.