Washington AD--Pac 10 reaches out to Texas and Texas A&M (Pac 10 + Big 12 merger?)

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

There is a time and place to be critical of BYU. If a kid from my ward is going to BYU, great, I'm very happy for them. Bringing up the issues I have concerns with--that's not really the place for that.

I had one young person who was planning to go to BYU privately ask me what I thought. I said that it is great for many, and not ideal for some.

I talked to a Ute who started at BYU but transferred to Utah. He said that when you are critical of BYU in front of children, they cannot distinguish between BYU and the church. Thus, you risk in fact sounding like you don't care for the church (I guess some could argue that this is the truth for these folks). I think he really doesn't like BYU, but at some level he holds back a little in front of his kids. He would support his children going to BYU if they chose that. The true-hater ALUF family I have met--they are strange. They seem to be SU-esque in their hatred, and it is off-putting to me.

At the end of the day, I think my issue with BYU is that I consider what it could be, and then look at what it is. But my vision is only my own. And it is not my fight or concern.

Let's be honest. The things that annoy about BYU are the same things that annoy about the LDS church. In fact, I have no doubt--and this is based on substantial personal experience--that though there are an embarrassing number of kooks on the BYU faculty who have no business being faculty at a respectable university, by and large the faculty and administrators are a lot more progressive, a lot more enlightened, a lot more sensible than the First Presidency, the Twelve, the Seventies, and even the general church membership.

Apart from that, BYU is practically speaking a department of the LDS Church. Children aren't fools; in fact, they are better than adults at seeing things as they are. If you criticize BYU you criticize the LDS church.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Let's be honest. The things that annoy about BYU are the same things that annoy about the LDS church. In fact, I have no doubt--and this is based on substantial personal experience--that though there are an embarrassing number of kooks on the BYU faculty who have no business being faculty at a respectable university, by and large the faculty and administrators are a lot more progressive, a lot more enlightened, a lot more sensible than the First Presidency, the Twelve, the Seventies, and even the general church membership.

Apart from that, BYU is practically speaking a department of the LDS Church. Children aren't fools; in fact, they are better than adults at seeing things as they are. If you criticize BYU you criticize the LDS church.

Maybe the difference members may try to become comfortable with is "critique" versus "criticize".

There are many aspects of BYU, or most other universities for that matter, that deserve insightful critiques. However, if one resorts to mere ad hominems, insults and pejorative remarks, one is simply criticizing. BYU should be big enough to endure that, as should the Church, but both organizations are rather thin-skinned about critiques and criticisms.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Maybe the difference members may try to become comfortable with is "critique" versus "criticize".

There are many aspects of BYU, or most other universities for that matter, that deserve insightful critiques. However, if one resorts to mere ad hominems, insults and pejorative remarks, one is simply criticizing. BYU should be big enough to endure that, as should the Church, but both organizations are rather thin-skinned about critiques and criticisms.

Churches are uncomfortable with socratic dialogue for obvious and understandable reasons. Should they not be? That's a complicated and nuanced question. I'm not sure it's fair to expect them to be, unless they are just being evil. But the problem with BYU is that it's part of a church. That makes it unique among major universities.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Let's be honest. The things that annoy about BYU are the same things that annoy about the LDS church. In fact, I have no doubt--and this is based on substantial personal experience--that though there are an embarrassing number of kooks on the BYU faculty who have no business being faculty at a respectable university, by and large the faculty and administrators are a lot more progressive, a lot more enlightened, a lot more sensible than the First Presidency, the Twelve, the Seventies, and even the general church membership.

Apart from that, BYU is practically speaking a department of the LDS Church. Children aren't fools; in fact, they are better than adults at seeing things as they are. If you criticize BYU you criticize the LDS church.

To some degree this is true.

I made a lot of friends at BYU. There were a lot of faculty that I liked. I had many good experiences.

The problem with BYU is that it tries to control too much. It tries to invent and proscribe a lifestyle, that doesn't always jive with what I see as my path. There is much more "freedom" in being active LDS than being a BYU student.

It's a little bit like government. I like limited government. Correct principles and let the people govern themselves. BYU is government run amok. "Who cares what the principles are, you are going to do as I say, and it's for your own good."

It would be nice if there were another state-side BYU. BYU-I as the ultra-conservative. BYU-Provo as the moderate conservative. And the new BYU as a "correct principles" long-leash university. It would be an interesting experiment.