What do we make of this Iran vs. USA conflict?

[Mindfulcoug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

We hear that there are some women in Afghanistan that now have better lives. But who knows.

I heard 2nd hand a comment that stuck with me. She told a family member that having been in Afghanistan, on a tour, she said "It's not a country worth saving." I.e. the attempts of America to make it a better place would not work, and were foolish.

George Will was right. Get out of Afghanistan, and if you need to attack the terrorists, do so from the air.

The documentary Restrepo also pointed out absurd that conflict has been.

It's not up to us to make any other people's lives better. We can't. They have to do it themselves. They have to define "better." If they want to turn their soccer fields into places to hang women, what are we going to do about it?

Nobody in America wants to take over Iran. We are told that Iran is fueling conflict over the entire region. Iran says it is not.

Fortunately we are living in an era that it is really hard to remain ignorant. There are enough sources to verify different claims directly or indirectly.

we are the people who wanted to get ride of Shah and have a democratic elected government. Look what has been done to us. From toppling down Mosadegh in 1935, till after the revolution, the Iraq-Iran war which had the whole world supporting Saddam for eight years and then pressuring our new inexperienced government with whatever means until now. Do you think Iran and its people have had any chance to build the better world for themselves?

I admit that we have used scary words and tools to push forward our agenda but its not because we are bad people it’s because we haven seen a lot of betrayal to trust the world and take off our gloves.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Mindfulcoug

Fortunately we are living in an era that it is really hard to remain ignorant. There are enough sources to verify different claims directly or indirectly.

we are the people who wanted to get ride of Shah and have a democratic elected government. Look what has been done to us. From toppling down Mosadegh in 1935, till after the revolution, the Iraq-Iran war which had the whole world supporting Saddam for eight years and then pressuring our new inexperienced government with whatever means until now. Do you think Iran and its people have had any chance to build the better world for themselves?

I admit that we have used scary words and tools to push forward our agenda but its not because we are bad people it’s because we haven seen a lot of betrayal to trust the world and take off our gloves.

Religiously controlled governments concern western secular societies. Western societies also eschew patriarchies.

Thus, having a reclusive, religiously controlled patriarchy is difficult for western societies to understand and to trust.

Western involvement in Iran has been distasteful since the CIA overthrow in 1953. I agree with Mike, we shouldn't dictate to people what they don't want.

Don't want feminism? That shouldn't be ours to foist upon someone. Want religion to govern your life? So be it.

The language of Islam is hard for a Western mindset to understand.

[MikeWaters]

You like honor killings in your country? Okay. What am I going to do about it? Send my children to die for your girls and women? No.

I’ve got news for Iran. WE ARE NOT IN IRAN. I repeat, we are not in Iran. Leave us alone. Stop trying to rule every country around you. Stop trying to erase Israel from the map. Stop trying to build nuclear weapons while at the same time shouting “DEATH TO AMERICA!”

Just live your lives in peace like your people (supposedly) want.

[MikeWaters]

I have a question. Do Iranians really have freedom and fair elections as we understand it in the west?

[Mindfulcoug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I have a question. Do Iranians really have freedom and fair elections as we understand it in the west?

I don’t know much about your election system but I know enough to say that you still can’t figure out how it works. You chose trump over Clinton! it still seems like a joke.

We, on the other hand, have a system to eliminate whoever has slightly different set of thinking and policies at the first place to make sure none of them get elected. lol

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Mindfulcoug

I don’t know much about your election system but I know enough to say that you still can’t figure out how it works. You chose trump over Clinton! it still seems like a joke.

We, on the other hand, have a system to eliminate whoever has slightly different set of thinking and policies at the first place to make sure none of them get elected. lol

People may live under whatever system they wish. I would not wish to live under a system where religion has a significant influence on government.

If one looks at the three Abrahamic religions, you'll see the religions are largely responsible for many of the world's wars.

Totalitarian regimes tend only to benefit those at the top with no hope for those at the bottom but there are plenty of places where life could be enjoyable---- if you leave politics out of it.

[MikeWaters]

I think it must be embarrassing for the average person in Iran to see Trump tweet out a request that Iran not shoots it's own citizen protesters.

Only to see protesters shot by their own government.

I don't think the average Iranian likes their government. What a destructive path that regime has led their people into. It's sad for them.

[Mindfulcoug]

Its unfathomable for an average person in Iran to understand the level of embarrassment you are feeling for having Trump as an American let alone the president of the united state of America.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Mindfulcoug

Its unfathomable for an average person in Iran to understand the level of embarrassment you are feeling for having Trump as an American let alone the president of the united state of America.

That's a complete misreading of America. I know the outside world has been trained to believe that Trump is a buffoon and that people in America hate him.

Most likely he's going to be reelected. One of the reasons is that he generally has stuck with what he promised to do. Most politicians never do so.

[MikeWaters]

Iran is also misreading Trump if they think he is not willing to make a deal. But not like Obama. Obama would give away the house. Trump won't.