Now Ricco and The Whole Saunier Duval

[RC Vikings]

Dam these pro cyclist.

On a related note does anybody know where I can score some EPO for our little September ride.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by RC Vikings

Dam these pro cyclist.

On a related note does anybody know where I can score some EPO for our little September ride.

do you have cancer?

[RC Vikings]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

do you have cancer?

Not yet but it runs in my family.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Coach McGuirk

This even strengthens my opinion that until the teams demand having clean riders, someone is going to cheat. So long Ricco.

http://tour-de-france.velonews.com/a...team-withdraws

Ricco is an interesting case. This is an italian that has made no bones about idolizing Pantani (who almost certainly was so full of drugs they were coming out his ears) and has discounted publicly the problmes Pantani had with drugs and so forth. Isn;'t he also one of the riders that had a doctor's certificate staing that he has a very high hematocrit level as a natrual matter? I suppose some people must, but it is amazing how many do in cycling (OTOH, it would be an advantage so maybe it is a chicken or egg sort of thing). As someone said, when he rode away from everybody more than once it looked bad, to me, but not impossible. OTOH, he did look more human on Hautacam, but his two teammates dropped Schleck and all the other climbers like nobody's business, which seemed a little odd to me and Ricco didn't follow, even though he looked under no duress with the lead group. So Ricco tests positive and the whole team voluntarily pulls out? Hmmm. Perhaps not a clean team.

I don't know if cycling is dirtier than other sports or not. I know a woman that was a qualifier for the 2000 olympic track team and she has told me, in private, that she is convinced that all track stars are on something or another. She said she was pressured to take drugs as soon as she got to college and her team was an average college squad. Can there be any question that baseball and football players are taking drugs?

I do know that Cycling tests it athletes more rigorously than any other sport of which I am aware. Every rider in the TdF gave a baseline blood sample before the race and every one is tested periodically during the race, in both scheduled and random tests and stage winner tests and so forth. I think it is cleaner. I think it is better, but it is not perfect, and it may never be perfect. This year they seem more likely to catch peple, however, and that can only be good, in the long run.

[MikeWaters]

obviously the incentives are still stacked in favor of doping.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Archaea

You're correct. In fact, I believe cycling's cleaner than almost any other sport, but it's not as clean as we wish it would be.

While you have basically zero basis for this belief, you can think it if you wish.

I disagree with mikewaters. baseball's drug policy is a complete joke and the steroid scandal has ruined much of the enjoyment of the game for me. I definitely care.

If cyclists are being caught with such frequency, isnt it safe to assume that cycling is actually extremely dirty, not clean? Seriously, what is your basis for thinking it is cleaner than any other sport? I dont get it.

[MikeWaters]

most baseball fans don't care.

see the adoration for Bonds in SF for example.

I can't name a single player who has been suspended for a year for steroid use. Or freaking suspended even for a day (I don't pay that close attention).

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

most baseball fans don't care.

see the adoration for Bonds in SF for example.

I can't name a single player who has been suspended for a year for steroid use. Or freaking suspended even for a day (I don't pay that close attention).

Two things: you are correct. baseball's drug policy is a complete joke. The players union is to blame because they keep fighting more stringent testing and punishment.

Adoration for bonds in SF WAS great while he was playing. Hatred for Bonds in the rest of the world is even greater.

I think baseball fans have grown apathetic to the drug issue because it is so rampant and neither side really wants to throw down major penalties.

I think cycling is basically the same way, although at least cycling is kicking people out and taking things a bit more seriously. creekster's reaction to my calling cyclists dopers and archaea's (baseless) belief that cycling is cleaner than most other sports indicates that, just like in baseball, there are fans of cycling who want to believe that the scandal is isolated.

Cycling, baseball, NFL, NBA, whatever....these men are competitive athletes. They make their livings off winning, endorsements, success. If cheating is part of the culture, the majority will succumb eventually because they need to remain competitive.

I doubt very highly that the vast majority of athletes in any sport are cheating because they want to break some record that was set 50 years ago. They are doping because they see that most of their competitors are doping, so they need to keep up.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Two things: you are correct. baseball's drug policy is a complete joke. The players union is to blame because they keep fighting more stringent testing and punishment.

Adoration for bonds in SF WAS great while he was playing. Hatred for Bonds in the rest of the world is even greater.

I think baseball fans have grown apathetic to the drug issue because it is so rampant and neither side really wants to throw down major penalties.

I think cycling is basically the same way, although at least cycling is kicking people out and taking things a bit more seriously. creekster's reaction to my calling cyclists dopers and archaea's (baseless) belief that cycling is cleaner than most other sports indicates that, just like in baseball, there are fans of cycling who want to believe that the scandal is isolated.

Cycling, baseball, NFL, NBA, whatever....these men are competitive athletes. They make their livings off winning, endorsements, success. If cheating is part of the culture, the majority will succumb eventually because they need to remain competitive.

I doubt very highly that the vast majority of athletes in any sport are cheating because they want to break some record that was set 50 years ago. They are doping because they see that most of their competitors are doping, so they need to keep up.

thanks for admitting that I am right, and you were wrong.

Name a single sponsor or advertiser who has pulled out of baseball due to doping.

You can't.

[RC Vikings]

Originally Posted by creekster

Pantani (who almost certainly was so full of drugs they were coming out his ears)

That made me laugh.