Do you think it's fair that tax dollars pay Kobe Bryant's $30 million salary

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Don't understand how your quote there supports your argument. I guess I just don't get it.

Its called sarcasm... The owners all say they aren't making any money but in reality they huge profits. For the NBA the salary cap is 55% of "Revenues" I use that term lightly because it generally relates to tv contracts not gate or merchandise

[Solon]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I agree with most of the points (as they pertain to this thread), but the only point above that even remotely goes to SU's premise is Point #1.

And in the case of the Sonics, they did not hold Seattle hostage. They just left and went elsewhere. Also, Point #1 begs the question: if these teams really are just a taxpayer drain, why would cities care that they leave?

Does Zimbalist give any specific examples in his article? The link is only a bio, as you had stated. It sounds like an interesting read.

Also, as I am sure you are aware, the MLB is slightly different from every other sports league because it enjoys an anti-trust exemption.

In the past decade or so, which teams have relocated......Houston Oilers, Montreal Expos, Vancouver Grizzlies, Seattle Supersonics, several NHL teams that I couldnt care less about. Any others? Seems that if teams are basically sibsidized by taxpayers, why move? Why didnt these teams just stay and hold their host cities hostage?

It's not an article. It's a 190+ page book. So, yes there are lots of statistics, examples, and other pieces of evidence he uses to build his case, although his book really only deals with baseball.

http://books.google.com/books?id=v9E...um=1&ct=result

Zimbalist's real ax to grind is against baseball's antitrust exemption. He writes that this allows baseball to falsely inflate demand for a team, leading to competing cities continually sweetening the deal to land or keep a team.

As for your question - it's a good one - why don't more cities just let their teams go?, Zimbalist spends some time (but admittedly not much) discussing the cultural impact of a team, and the desire to build and display civic identity and pride. For whatever sociological reasons, people take their sports seriously (isn't the existence of this website in some way proof of that?). Baseball preys upon this cultural love affair with the sport to gain government-sponsored subsidies that profit certain parties in the private sector.

Maybe you could argue that the civic pride is enough to compensate for a public subsidy. Certainly enough cities have felt that this is the case to justify building expensive facilities with bonds or sales tax or whatever.

At any rate (as you point out), Zimbalist's attack of baseball's antitrust exemption doesn't precisely translate to NBA, NFL, or NHL, although he maintains that the de facto situations are similar. As he writes,

In the end, the owner [of an NFL, NBA, or NHL franchise] generally is allowed to move but is compelled to pay the league a relocation fee on the order of tens of millions of dollars . . . The problem with monopoly leagues is that they create artificial franchise scarcity, which makes it more likely that such a fee will be passed on to the host city. [2004 paperback ed., pg. 30]

The Sonics' fee is $30 million.

BTW, I'm just the messenger here. I don't have a pony in this race: if people are dumb enough to agree through referendum to finance a new stadium with public means, if their team is that important to them, then let them.

[SeattleUte]

Come on. Many of you haven't voted. Creekster, YOhio, Landpoke, are you for Kobe or the young peoople in Iraq?

[creekster]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Come on. Many of you haven't voted. Creekster, YOhio, Landpoke, are you for Kobe or the young peoople in Iraq?

As I have said before: I don't vote in polls that lack adequate choices, that are uninteresting to me, or which are simply silly (silly is the euphemism for stupid at my house).

[YOhio]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Come on. Many of you haven't voted. Creekster, YOhio, Landpoke, are you for Kobe or the young peoople in Iraq?

I'm confused, I thought this whole poll/thread was about you and Triple Father.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by creekster

As I have said before: I don't vote in polls that lack adequate choices, that are uninteresting to me, or which are simply silly (silly is the euphemism for stupid at my house).

Why is it silly? Pro athletes have just replaced warriors as our objects of reverence. The Greeks and at one time Americans adored their warriors as Americans now adore Kobe, et al. Moreover, if you could wouldn't you give the billions given by governments to the NBA to the soldiers putting thier lives on the line?

There's nothing silly about the poll. Mabye it has a rhetorical aspect but we should all be uncomfortable about what our country's values have become.

[MikeWaters]

What war? Is there a war going on?

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

What war? Is there a war going on?

Exactly.

[YOhio]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Why is it silly? Pro athletes have just replaced warriors as our objects of reverence. The Greeks and at one time Americans adored their warriors as Americans now adore Kobe, et al. Moreover, if you could wouldn't you give the billions given by governments to the NBA to the soldiers putting thier lives on the line?

There's nothing silly about the poll. Mabye it has a rhetorical aspect but we should all be uncomfortable about what our country's values have become.

I get a lot more worked up about the fact that there are a number of private contractors getting paid significantly more than the U.S. soldier for providing a similar service.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by YOhio

I'm confused, I thought this whole poll/thread was about you and Triple Father.

If you thought that's what you thought this thread was about, with friends like you I don't need enemies. As usual, you express your agreement with me by your silence.