Suicide and homosexuality

[YOhio]

Speaking of suicides, it was revealed today that my favorite childhood author's death was attributable to an intentional druge overdose.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...y/mentalhealth

[exUte]

Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar

BRM had many fine qualities, but sensitivity was not his long suit. I am aware that GAs still talk about a stake conference visit by the McConkies, during which his wife passed out at the pulpit and collapsed to the floor. While others reacted quickly, rushing to her side, Elder McConkie literally stepped over his wife without pausing to check things out, assured the congregation along the lines of "Don't worry, she'll be fine," and immediately launched into his talk while others pulled his wife off of the podium. I suppose that says as much about Sister McConkie as it does about him; if I performed similarly, that talk would be my last.

eom

Or just something you made up? Or some folklore.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Where did you read this? Do you have a link?



What a horrible statement. It boggles my mind that a man this heartless become an apostle.

Mormon Doctrine (first edition), they found 1,100+ errors/things they disagreed with. That's why it was pulled.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

Wonder how successful BRM's comment was in that respect...

"The late Elder Bruce R. McConkie, formerly of the Quorum of the Twelve, expressed what many Church leaders have taught: “Suicide consists in the voluntary and intentional taking of one’s own life, particularly where the person involved is accountable and has a sound mind. … Persons subject to great stresses may lose control of themselves and become mentally clouded to the point that they are no longer accountable for their acts. Such are not to be condemned for taking their own lives. It should also be remembered that judgment is the Lord’s; he knows the thoughts, intents, and abilities of men; and he in his infinite wisdom will make all things right in due course.” (Mormon Doctrine, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966, p. 771; some italics added.)"

What is wrong with what he said here?

[exUte]

Originally Posted by Tex

The quote was in the first edition. Anyone know if it was changed in subsequent editions?

"The late Elder Bruce R. McConkie, formerly of the Quorum of the Twelve, expressed what many Church leaders have taught: “Suicide consists in the voluntary and intentional taking of one’s own life, particularly where the person involved is accountable and has a sound mind. … Persons subject to great stresses may lose control of themselves and become mentally clouded to the point that they are no longer accountable for their acts. Such are not to be condemned for taking their own lives. It should also be remembered that judgment is the Lord’s; he knows the thoughts, intents, and abilities of men; and he in his infinite wisdom will make all things right in due course.” (Mormon Doctrine, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966, p. 771; some italics added.)"

[exUte]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

This has probably been posted here somewhere before, but I just came across this for the first and was floored...

Utah leads the nation in suicide rates among men 15-24 and 1/3 of these are tied to issues of homosexuality.

"An endowed person who has committed suicide may be buried in temple clothing."

"It is wrong to take a life, even one's own. However, a person who commits suicide may not be responsible for his or her acts. Only God can judge such a matter.

Leaders should counsel and compassionately console the family members of a person who has committed suicide. The family, in consultation with the bishop, determines the place and nature of a funeral service for a person who has died under such circumstances. Church facilities may be used."

What a heartless, condemning church. Right?

Plus you neglected to reference the BRM quote where he said only god knows the mind of the person and God would be just. I guess it didn't fit your agenda?

[PaloAltoCougar]

Originally Posted by exUte

eom

Or just something you made up? Or some folklore.

I didn't witness the event, so I'll allow for the possibility that it may be folklore. But since it was reported by a very high ranking member of the Church who I will not identify, I don't question its accuracy. Were you expecting a link?

[exUte]

Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar

I didn't witness the event, so I'll allow for the possibility that it may be folklore. But since it was reported by a very high ranking member of the Church who I will not identify, I don't question its accuracy. Were you expecting a link?

googled "mcconkie + "wife passed out"". Result is here: http://www.google.com/search?q=mccon...e7&rlz=1I7GGLJ

[Tex]

Originally Posted by exUte

"The late Elder Bruce R. McConkie, formerly of the Quorum of the Twelve, expressed what many Church leaders have taught: “Suicide consists in the voluntary and intentional taking of one’s own life, particularly where the person involved is accountable and has a sound mind. … Persons subject to great stresses may lose control of themselves and become mentally clouded to the point that they are no longer accountable for their acts. Such are not to be condemned for taking their own lives. It should also be remembered that judgment is the Lord’s; he knows the thoughts, intents, and abilities of men; and he in his infinite wisdom will make all things right in due course.” (Mormon Doctrine, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966, p. 771; some italics added.)"

I'd like to think he moderated his views a little over the 14 years before becoming an apostle.

Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar

I didn't witness the event, so I'll allow for the possibility that it may be folklore. But since it was reported by a very high ranking member of the Church who I will not identify, I don't question its accuracy. Were you expecting a link?

Frankly, since we're teetering on the brink of yet another BRM-bashing thread, it would be nice to see some attribution, yes.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar

I didn't witness the event, so I'll allow for the possibility that it may be folklore. But since it was reported by a very high ranking member of the Church who I will not identify, I don't question its accuracy. Were you expecting a link?

If you combine these little pieces of evidence

1. extraordinary emotional insensitivity about suicide
2. lack of the most basic common courtesy towards his wife
3. his interest in cataloging all Mormon beliefs and doctrine

You may actually come up with someone who is on the autistic continuum, I think it was Lebowski who suggested it was "Aspergerian."

If true, I don't see this as condemnatory, I see this as merely explanatory--that the worst of BRM was possibly the product of a form of mental illness, that was far from his control.